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MissMeMiss

Too many noobs above Tier 5. What went wrong ?

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[HKACC]
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As you can see on my signature, I leveling US ship equally, because I don't want miss the experience and to avoid biased opinion to each ship type, also learn how one might think when I face them in battle. At least for the US Tech Tree for now.

 

When I'm reach Tier 5, which start in Tier 4 the learning/XP curve getting lengthy ... I believe all players should already had battle-map-tactical awareness. By effective shooting, mentally challenge and follow objective. But what I get from many matches when reach Tier 4 and above, was a teamed with bad shooting skill, lack communication, cowards mentality and don't care objective's players. How can this happen ? Is above 100 matches don't get you something of understanding from this game ?

 

Many players with CA & BB shooting distance of 15km~20km, are position them on the edges and shooting by using their maximum range, and it will down it's cannons effective to none. Long shoot will get us a very bad dispersion effect. Only 2 or 3 people brave to combat under 15km.

 

Players with CA & DD with torps, love to launch Torpedo beyond it's effective range. Many times when I use DD fight in the front lines, I had to battle many enemies at once, dodging their raining shells, torpedo, and OUR team torpedoes. When I looked back, they are 10 km distant from me, let alone from enemy. Rather than shooting cannons, they launch Torpedoes to my combat zone. Many times I got killed or badly hurt by our team torpedo so make more advantage situation for enemy.

 

Fighting with enemy DD, many players of all kind of ship type, just keeping sailing forward without aware that the enemy DD just launch a torpedoes salvo on their front ways. Many players I see, they keep focus shooting and died instantly by the torpedoes. When I got 10-3km with enemy DD, instead keeping open my side, I'm quickly turn front or rear to avoid a definite torpedo salvo. Many players don't had this awareness.

 

Players with CV. When I teamed with IJN CV, I don't have hopes that he/she will help me directly. But when teammed with US CV, I have high hope that he/she will kill enemy bombers. If I see Langley vs Langley, or Bogue vs Bogue, I'm not expecting much. But when Bogue vs IJN's CV, I expect them much to get air superiority. Unless the Bogue is factory standard or seeing them set with 2 DB and 1 TB. But when he use the 2 AF and 1 DB, I'm expecting a clear sky. But it didn't, some are very poorly using US AF and just click on enemy DB, even when they bring it to their base, and make our US AF getting ripped by AA guns.

 

Ranked Battle ... my god. I stop care for it. It just more worse than Random.

 

So again, let me ask you all. What went wrong ?

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i've had an absolutely horrible weekend in ranks.

i went in to get commander points over the weekend, and some cash,

yes i got those, but omg you're right there is noobs in every level.

 

and cv's make it exponentially worse. today several times they could have capped,

the cv themselves could have just sailed over and capped, or killed the ship that was

capping on the other team, but instead chose to defend themselves,

or keep chasing the other cv no matter what. and people afk'ing the whole game???>

 

 

i have no idea what system would work,

but whatever you're doing now just isn't working.

people sailing to the back of the map for no reason at 60% hp,

people going to cap by themselves and getting killed in two minutes,

it's a fiasco from start to finish. and why on earth can't you matth the amount of dd's on a team??

why would you do that?? d''s win these matches.

and ca's that sit around the cv providing cover.

what's with that?? we can't win in a 7 ship battle if we

have 2 ships sitting around doing nothing.

 

one cv told me he wasn't sending planes because he didn't want to pay the repair bill

\

.INFURIATING EXPEREINCE.

 

but my izumo needs cash and my amagi needs commander points so i'll be back in there tonight

 

BUT I DO NOT PLAY TO WIN ANYMORE.

it's a complete waste of time. i'm there for money.

and people can complain all they want.

 

i had a guy torp kill me on my own team yesterday,

and he didn't even get a penalty.

 

totally unpleasurable gaming experience.

lucky there is added rewards or there wouldn't be anyone in there

 

 

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[AUSNZ]
[AUSNZ]
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I wont start on ranked battles, there are some terrible players in that league.

 

Yes i concur, at tiers 4+ people should know the basics and mechanics to win a match. However many seem naive or border line trolls.

 

One cannot even warn them as they take umbrage at you for advising them on how to play. Still we can only attempt to bring them towards the light!

 

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I believe the problem lies in how people push to progress to the next tier rapidly. There isn't a minimum amount of battles on ships in their perspective tier. There should be. A requirement of a certain number of battles per tier should, not will, should allow a new player to learn the mechanics of those ships. Maybe they (WG) can institute a set number of battles (10 @ Tier 1, 20 @ Tier 2, 30 @ Tier 3 and so on). Conversely, maybe they shouldn't open up PvP to new players until after they've gone through tier 4 level ships. This means they'd have to participate in Co-op battles where they can learn and progress. This will keep WG from increasing required XP to slow down the advancement to the next tier. Furthermore, to ensure that the grind is true in its advancement, free XP should not be allowed to unlock a new level until after they've unlocked tier 5.

 

As WG staff have stated Co-op is for 'training' purposes. Well, if that is true, then don't allow new players to participate in PvP until they've actually reached tier 4 and then unlocked tier 5. That would be 100 battles worth of experience. This would also mean that they would not be allowed to use their premium ships in PvP either, only in Co-op until they've actually unlocked PvP.

 

A simple solution that should help players learn to play and get well acquainted with this game's mechanics. Mind you, the AI ships in Co-op are unforgiving and they will brutalize players for making boneheaded decisions. If players are smart enough, they should learn not to make those mistakes. No one is denied the ability to play the game, they just have to earn the right to participate in PvP when they've gotten to a certain level of achievement.

Edited by Ni_Tehn_Do

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I am truly humbled to be in the presence of some of the best players in this game that have posted above.

On behalf of all us noobs, that apparently lose games for you when your perceived greatness means you do no wrong, allow me to apologize.

 

Sarcasm mode deactivated. 

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Beta Tester
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I can tell, noobs are everywhere, it in inevitable to meet this creature.

even on a Rank 2 Battle you get f--king noobs on ur team. deranking to rank 4.

 

Yea i heard the story, things will be better :)
Edited by MeloMelonSoda

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Somehow it's because how the current setup rewards aggressive play style... The more damage you do, the more rewarding it gets and it somehow forms a bad habit on players not playing as a team. Now I'm not saying aggressive play is bad, it's just those players who "Rambo" into the fray that's bad. Being a "Smart Rambo" does work miracles though...

 

I wish there was a way to reward a player with more XP if they play as a cohesive unit complementing on each others' ship/class weaknesses...

 

I mean as a USSR DD player (since my torps are practically useless) I usually find myself riding and gunning with the battle group and once I see that the group has "entrenched" at a certain area where they engage in a skirmish with the enemy team that's where I pop smoke... I think it works somehow since the enemy barrage does stop at where my firing team mates are... I could be wrong here... Using Communism powered engines also lands me better opportunities to cap because of Glorious Soviet speed (not to be confused with Full speed)...

 

As a CA/CL player there's a ton of crap for me that I usually do (asides from damage dealing) to keep the team intact like being a good enough and annoying bait since you got the firepower & ROF to piss anybody off and the maneuverability to get of dodge... I just love it when I make the enemy waste their shots on me only to dodge most of them while letting the a BB or a CA get out and lob some deadly shots in... heck I know I've lead an enemy BB or two into a killzone...

 

There are plenty of ways to help the team win but not a lot of rewards for this kind of going-out-of-your-way kind of team support...

 

(On another note) I don't know somehow I wish there could be a way to reward players to get into formation... I've experienced it myself a few times being in a column as a BB with other BBs... The whole match becomes a turkey shoot... Strange how some players connect with other with some sort of telepathy...

Edited by Kreigg

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i've had an absolutely horrible weekend in ranks.

i went in to get commander points over the weekend, and some cash,

yes i got those, but omg you're right there is noobs in every level.

 

and cv's make it exponentially worse. today several times they could have capped,

the cv themselves could have just sailed over and capped, or killed the ship that was

capping on the other team, but instead chose to defend themselves,

or keep chasing the other cv no matter what. and people afk'ing the whole game???>

 

 

i have no idea what system would work,

but whatever you're doing now just isn't working.

people sailing to the back of the map for no reason at 60% hp,

people going to cap by themselves and getting killed in two minutes,

it's a fiasco from start to finish. and why on earth can't you matth the amount of dd's on a team??

why would you do that?? d''s win these matches.

and ca's that sit around the cv providing cover.

what's with that?? we can't win in a 7 ship battle if we

have 2 ships sitting around doing nothing.

 

one cv told me he wasn't sending planes because he didn't want to pay the repair bill

\

.INFURIATING EXPEREINCE.

 

but my izumo needs cash and my amagi needs commander points so i'll be back in there tonight

 

BUT I DO NOT PLAY TO WIN ANYMORE.

it's a complete waste of time. i'm there for money.

and people can complain all they want.

 

i had a guy torp kill me on my own team yesterday,

and he didn't even get a penalty.

 

totally unpleasurable gaming experience.

lucky there is added rewards or there wouldn't be anyone in there

 

 

 

 Lol like 75% of CV captain I have played agasint are awful. As a CV main I guess that too many captain decided to rush through the early tier and get to the top ship and they haven't received enough training along the way. Tier 6 and 7 is when they get slapped in the face by the 25% of the other people who didn't rush through the early tier and actually trained them self properly. And don't even get started on IJN CV captain, they do really well because their ships totally outclass the USN CV until tier 8 which mean that they have things way to easy and are spoiled

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Yes i concur, at tiers 4+ people should know the basics and mechanics to win a match. However many seem naive or border line trolls.

 

One cannot even warn them as they take umbrage at you for advising them on how to play. Still we can only attempt to bring them towards the light!

 

 

Do you know that after my 100+ games at tiers 1 - 5 I still have no clue how to actually win games?

 

For a while it bothered me and I tried to figure out what was going wrong and what I could to change it. But nothing I do or have tried has had any change on my fortunes whatsoever.

 

So these days I just grab a ship and sail around safe in the knowledge that my team is going to lose the game with or without me. Its must more fun when you dont care about what happens.

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[HKACC]
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Long story short, people are different and have different learning curves, and some people have flat lines.

 

Interesting... when I'm thinking about it, I did had different learning curves to each ship type.

DD : Nearly flat learning curves. I'm just so cursed using DD. You see me using DD, expect full noobs mode of me. But lately, I got hang to it, start understand how to play it.

CA : Standard learning curves. I'm somewhat 50-50 with this class. Yes US CA had better armor but lack Torpedo range compare to IJN, but the real pain in the butt are US CA had less cannon range than IJN, at least for my Omaha. Big Citadel, 12,7km cannon range. So, it's a 50-50 chance I will perform good or bad.

CV : Good learning curves. I'm getting good with my Bogue 2AF+1DB, fighting IJN CV Tier 4 & 5 is EZ mode, fighting another Bogue are challenging. But hearing it will be screw up when met IJN CV Tier 6 and 7. Looks forward to it.

BB : Skyrocket learning curves. Yes, BB had strong armor or big cannon, but I can guarantee my shot won't miss under 15km. Critical/High Damage or not, that's another matter.

 

Evaluating myself, it's seem not all people can be expert to play all class type. Some are good with A but lacking in B, and so on. Maybe, I just super unlucky, to teamed with people who play a ship class that not his expertise. Or maybe, they are good, but good in World of Tanks ... who (the hell) knows ? :P

Edited by MissMeMiss

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I believe the problem lies in how people push to progress to the next tier rapidly. There isn't a minimum amount of battles on ships in their perspective tier. There should be. A requirement of a certain number of battles per tier should, not will, should allow a new player to learn the mechanics of those ships. Maybe they (WG) can institute a set number of battles (10 @ Tier 1, 20 @ Tier 2, 30 @ Tier 3 and so on). Conversely, maybe they shouldn't open up PvP to new players until after they've gone through tier 4 level ships. This means they'd have to participate in Co-op battles where they can learn and progress. This will keep WG from increasing required XP to slow down the advancement to the next tier. Furthermore, to ensure that the grind is true in its advancement, free XP should not be allowed to unlock a new level until after they've unlocked tier 5.

 

As WG staff have stated Co-op is for 'training' purposes. Well, if that is true, then don't allow new players to participate in PvP until they've actually reached tier 4 and then unlocked tier 5. That would be 100 battles worth of experience. This would also mean that they would not be allowed to use their premium ships in PvP either, only in Co-op until they've actually unlocked PvP.

 

A simple solution that should help players learn to play and get well acquainted with this game's mechanics. Mind you, the AI ships in Co-op are unforgiving and they will brutalize players for making boneheaded decisions. If players are smart enough, they should learn not to make those mistakes. No one is denied the ability to play the game, they just have to earn the right to participate in PvP when they've gotten to a certain level of achievement.

 

Actually what they need is tutorials with a focus on ship role and teamwork... Sadly this is very hard to do. The problem is that the game system rewards damage, not playing in your role. And it's very hard to get that rewards system right as there is variety even within type. (DD - spotting/screening, CA - DD counter and AA... etc).

 

 

You will meet them again when you are tier 8 or above :hiding: idk why , but at tier 8 9 10 some players play really like a noob ???

 

Yeah seen this a bit, and it isn't even mostly premiums people... Just - - - I have no idea why... HALP!

 

 

I am truly humbled to be in the presence of some of the best players in this game that have posted above.

On behalf of all us noobs, that apparently lose games for you when your perceived greatness means you do no wrong, allow me to apologize.

 

Sarcasm mode deactivated. 

 

:trollface:

LOL, yep you are such a noob only 1000 games!! 

 

Somehow it's because how the current setup rewards aggressive play style... The more damage you do, the more rewarding it gets and it somehow forms a bad habit on players not playing as a team. Now I'm not saying aggressive play is bad, it's just those players who "Rambo" into the fray that's bad. Being a "Smart Rambo" does work miracles though...

 

I wish there was a way to reward a player with more XP if they play as a cohesive unit complementing on each others' ship/class weaknesses...

 

I mean as a USSR DD player (since my torps are practically useless) I usually find myself riding and gunning with the battle group and once I see that the group has "entrenched" at a certain area where they engage in a skirmish with the enemy team that's where I pop smoke... I think it works somehow since the enemy barrage does stop at where my firing team mates are... I could be wrong here... Using Communism powered engines also lands me better opportunities to cap because of Glorious Soviet speed (not to be confused with Full speed)...

 

As a CA/CL player there's a ton of crap for me that I usually do (asides from damage dealing) to keep the team intact like being a good enough and annoying bait since you got the firepower & ROF to piss anybody off and the maneuverability to get of dodge... I just love it when I make the enemy waste their shots on me only to dodge most of them while letting the a BB or a CA get out and lob some deadly shots in... heck I know I've lead an enemy BB or two into a killzone...

 

There are plenty of ways to help the team win but not a lot of rewards for this kind of going-out-of-your-way kind of team support...

 

(On another note) I don't know somehow I wish there could be a way to reward players to get into formation... I've experienced it myself a few times being in a column as a BB with other BBs... The whole match becomes a turkey shoot... Strange how some players connect with other with some sort of telepathy...

 

I agree with you in principle, however it's quite difficult to implement. You have rough ship-class role but then within each of those classes the role varies dramatically...

ie. You wouldn't expect a Mogami to be AA defence when you have any USN Cruiser with you...

ie. If you want a smoke-screening DD, you wouldn't pick an IJN DD.

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maybe.....

 

we're being vain and egotistical to think that we alone can

change the outcome of a 14 person game????

 

on friday night i won 14 games straight NOT ONE LOSS.

and got to tier 6 + 3 stars,

then i got friendly torped,

on sunday i lost all the way back to tier ten without even a win [i stopped counting]

i played in the same ship with the same tactics.

 

is it logical to think that swaying the outcome of a 14 person game is somehow related to our skill??

 

i find it funny that people check public game stats WHILE THEY ARE PLAYING with someone.

 

what is wrong with people that they are trying to be so good that they think they can sway the outcome of a 24 player game on a regular basis?

Edited by fuzzjunky

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In a recent game, the team I was in had the only DD and the captain of this DD (an IJN Tier 7 DD) decided that he/she won't go near to cap any objectives. Go figure.

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we have given up all hope to win in this game. For now me and my crew are aiming for the hillarious situation and laugh about it only. After all, the game is about fun...

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I agree with you in principle, however it's quite difficult to implement. You have rough ship-class role but then within each of those classes the role varies dramatically...

ie. You wouldn't expect a Mogami to be AA defence when you have any USN Cruiser with you...

ie. If you want a smoke-screening DD, you wouldn't pick an IJN DD.

 

Well I guess there's that factor too... Now that you mention, it will tricky to have it around... but it would be quite a game-changer if WG pulled it off...

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[STGGC]
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had a match in Rank Battle and i need to carry the whole team,, tier 6 player started to getting fuzzy for some reason,, and FFS,, tier 8 was horrible,, back in CBT i could manage to get atleast 5 kills,, twice,, but nowadays,, i can't even get my support from nearby CA,, except my trusty div mate,, and for some reason mid tier game (tier 5) and below were enjoyable than high tier battle :sceptic:

man~ i don't want to club the seal but i can't even play my Amagi properly like in CBT when everyone still had their mind and common sense

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Well I guess there's that factor too... Now that you mention, it will tricky to have it around... but it would be quite a game-changer if WG pulled it off...

 

Yeah, we know that they are implementing spotting xp at some stage, which will greatly improve DDs (Although not sure CVs should get it...)

As for the rest, yeah probs won't happen, using WoT as a reference anyways.

 

had a match in Rank Battle and i need to carry the whole team,, tier 6 player started to getting fuzzy for some reason,, and FFS,, tier 8 was horrible,, back in CBT i could manage to get atleast 5 kills,, twice,, but nowadays,, i can't even get my support from nearby CA,, except my trusty div mate,, and for some reason mid tier game (tier 5) and below were enjoyable than high tier battle :sceptic:

man~ i don't want to club the seal but i can't even play my Amagi properly like in CBT when everyone still had their mind and common sense

 

Yeah I've been having problems in RB,

My Team:  S4pp3R must carry in his Atago - 1v5 :child:

Me: y u do dis? :(

 

OR

 

Game: Hey Sap-Sap! :trollface:

Me: o hai

Game: You know what'd be funny Sap-Sap? :teethhappy:

Me: Let me guess - TK torps?

Game:  Hahahaha nah... #detonation :trollface:

Me: y u do dis :(

 

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[HOTA]
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I believe the problem lies in how people push to progress to the next tier rapidly. There isn't a minimum amount of battles on ships in their perspective tier. There should be. A requirement of a certain number of battles per tier should, not will, should allow a new player to learn the mechanics of those ships. Maybe they (WG) can institute a set number of battles (10 @ Tier 1, 20 @ Tier 2, 30 @ Tier 3 and so on). Conversely, maybe they shouldn't open up PvP to new players until after they've gone through tier 4 level ships. This means they'd have to participate in Co-op battles where they can learn and progress. This will keep WG from increasing required XP to slow down the advancement to the next tier. Furthermore, to ensure that the grind is true in its advancement, free XP should not be allowed to unlock a new level until after they've unlocked tier 5.

 

As WG staff have stated Co-op is for 'training' purposes. Well, if that is true, then don't allow new players to participate in PvP until they've actually reached tier 4 and then unlocked tier 5. That would be 100 battles worth of experience. This would also mean that they would not be allowed to use their premium ships in PvP either, only in Co-op until they've actually unlocked PvP.

 

A simple solution that should help players learn to play and get well acquainted with this game's mechanics. Mind you, the AI ships in Co-op are unforgiving and they will brutalize players for making boneheaded decisions. If players are smart enough, they should learn not to make those mistakes. No one is denied the ability to play the game, they just have to earn the right to participate in PvP when they've gotten to a certain level of achievement.

 

Unfortunately, the number of games played, regardless of Tier, is NOT and can never be used as a measure of experience or ability, though one would hope ability does improve over time, if only marginally. Most players don't improve for a number of reasons, such as:

  • they do not understand the basic concepts of the game;
  • they do not understand naval combat versus combat in other types of MMO based games;
  • they have no idea of the role and individual characteristics of the ship they are using or someone else is using (obvious when they start abusing you);
  • they fundamentally lack the ability to improve regardless; and
  • they do not care.

 

To be truly effective in addressing this issue, progress through the Tiers must be milestone based using a skill based set of milestones. There needs to be a separate set of skills for each class of ship to ensure they learn the nuances of each class. You could probably even argue this needs to extend across nations due to the significant differences in the characteristics of ship classes between nations, e.g. Japanese DDs versus USA DDs.

 

Now, apart from this placing constraints on players and the subsequent impact on game adoption rates and maintaining activity levels, all of this is somewhat counterproductive to revenue generation.

 

It would be good to see though, it is very much needed.

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