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Kreigg

Some confusion with the Cleveland

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Hello and Thanks for opening this thread...

 

I recently just acquired my Cleveland and I'm still getting used to her. She does have this weird property (where I understand that this is a balancing issue) that the shells take a lot more time to get to target. With that said I have 3 questions so that I can understand her much better.

 

1. What's influencing my shot's travel time? Is it a higher firing arc or simply slow shells but same firing arc like everybody else?

2. If it's a higher firing arc, should I rely more on AP deck penetrating shots rather than AP waterline shots?

3. At what range should I consider the shells to be low enough an angle to consider AP waterline shots?

 

I am loving the Cleveland but she's still too new for me to give it my best performance. So far I've been relying on deck penetrating shots to get citadel hits at extreme ranges... but I know she can be much much better.

 

Your thoughts and inputs are highly appreciated, have a great day ahead and thanks!

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Super Tester
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My thoughts on it... Sell it. Noonburger and Aoba are far more reliable than that Cleaver. Hated those shell charactersistics. Can't adapt to it.

 

To answer your questions, it seems like the shell arc tends to be influenced by gun elevation. USN guns can pretty much elevate to an estimated of 60deg??? So they tend to fly higher. As a direct relation to that, by the common sense of Physics, shells expand energy to climb to a height up to a point where it's kinetic energy gets overcomed by gravity. This flight to sub orbital altitudes takes time. Compared to IJN or KM ships where their guns don't seem to elevate much, therefore their shell arcs are conversely lower. You don't waste time and kinetic energy gaining altotude. So that's why IJN and KM shells fly flatter relative to USN and more reliable. Being at the receiving end of the Cleaver, they use it as a HE machine. The ONLY redeeming feature of the Cleaver that I can see is that the citadel is rather hard to get to. All other features, in my opinion, just meh or average. You solely rely on guns to wither the enemy down. Unlike IJN and KM CA where you can rely on torpedoes for insta kill if need be.

 

I sold my Cleaver and I'm happier without it.

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Beta Tester
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The more you play it, the more you get used to it. It's kinda tricky trying to hit a cruiser or destroyer at extreme range with Cheatland, so ignore them and focus on the big fat battleship. If you have nothing to shoot at, then make sure you spread your shot. With the velocity nerf, Cheatland can be out gunned by Nürnberg, even Königsberg and Murmansk at long range, if it is played by an unexperienced player.

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Super Tester
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1 definitely highr arc(and slow shells, maybe......)

2 use HE more cuz cleveland exists for "rain of HE fireballs" if AP, use it only on cruisers which have weaker armor(like kuma, omaha)

3 may be closer than 8km?:P

 

cleveland is a good ships after all and thats why many players use it in ranked battle.

you will definitely love it if you start to get used to it's high arc

Edited by yukionfire

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Beta Tester
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some tips playing cleveland.

 

1. at longer range don't fire at light cruiser and destroyers. its a waste of ammo and time because they will most likely able to dodge your shots. prioritize attacking heavier ship like battleship using HE and ap against heavy cruiser (He if their armor is angled)

2. cleveland is best for mid to close quarter against other cruiser. by angling your armor they will never able to citadel you. try spamming he at their superstructure at first to cause fire then once they reveal their broadside, just fire AP under their smoke stack.

3. i don't know about others but i use acceleration module instead of rudder-shift module. i experience sinking multiple DD at CQC by changing my speed and rudder-shift to trick them and sink them with HE once i know that they already expend their Torpedo.

 

(even at close range, don't fire ap against angled heavy cruiser. you will not able to penetrate anything with those puny 155mm guns. just keep firing he at them and only change to ap once they reveal their soft side)

 

 

 

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Alpha Tester
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1) Only use HE & Spam HE.

 

2) Try staying with team mates. Even better, stay near ships that are higher value targets than yourself & Spam HE.

 

3) You have a great AA suite for your tier. Use it to support team mates & Spam HE.

 

4) Get close to enemies but not so close you eat torpedoes & Spam HE.

 

5) Captain skills that buff your guns are very helpful & Spam HE.

 

6) Did I mention that you should Spam HE????

 

:trollface:

 

 

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1) Only use HE & Spam HE.

 

2) Try staying with team mates. Even better, stay near ships that are higher value targets than yourself & Spam HE.

 

3) You have a great AA suite for your tier. Use it to support team mates & Spam HE.

 

4) Get close to enemies but not so close you eat torpedoes & Spam HE.

 

5) Captain skills that buff your guns are very helpful & Spam HE.

 

6) Did I mention that you should Spam HE????

 

:trollface:

 

 

 

Judging from your advice, Are you suggesting that I should Spam HE?? :trollface:

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Beta Tester
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I got some confusion about Krieg and Kreigg tho :amazed:

 

good thing he's not a CBT player, if he's a cbt player then i might have to call them as alpha krieg and beta kriegg. :D

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My thoughts on it... Sell it. Noonburger and Aoba are far more reliable than that Cleaver. Hated those shell charactersistics. Can't adapt to it.

 

To answer your questions, it seems like the shell arc tends to be influenced by gun elevation. USN guns can pretty much elevate to an estimated of 60deg??? So they tend to fly higher. As a direct relation to that, by the common sense of Physics, shells expand energy to climb to a height up to a point where it's kinetic energy gets overcomed by gravity. This flight to sub orbital altitudes takes time. Compared to IJN or KM ships where their guns don't seem to elevate much, therefore their shell arcs are conversely lower. You don't waste time and kinetic energy gaining altotude. So that's why IJN and KM shells fly flatter relative to USN and more reliable. Being at the receiving end of the Cleaver, they use it as a HE machine. The ONLY redeeming feature of the Cleaver that I can see is that the citadel is rather hard to get to. All other features, in my opinion, just meh or average. You solely rely on guns to wither the enemy down. Unlike IJN and KM CA where you can rely on torpedoes for insta kill if need be.

 

I sold my Cleaver and I'm happier without it.

 

I... ah... ummmmmm

You sure?

 

You are literally the first non new player I've seen that wasn't impressed with the Cleveland...

Haven't played it myself, played with many friends who do have them though... The way they sing about it, the games they have and vsing it - I'm very surprised at your response.

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Super Tester
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I... ah... ummmmmm

You sure?

 

You are literally the first non new player I've seen that wasn't impressed with the Cleveland...

Haven't played it myself, played with many friends who do have them though... The way they sing about it, the games they have and vsing it - I'm very surprised at your response.

 

Well, you're right. I'm not impressed by it. Even back in Closed Beta. Sure I was wowed by the forum goers and videos on Cleaver but when I got it, all the hype just went out into the trash can for me at least. 

 

I hate it for the fact that even at mid to point blank, the shells don't reliable fly or able to get a reliable aim

 

I hate it for the fact that I can ONLY rely on the guns to strike down my foes even at point mid range to point blank. At those ranges, I prefer to instakill my foes and torpedoes allows me to do that.

 

I hate it for the fact that it lacks the reliability and punching power of Aoba. Even if AOba is citadel city and has WAY slower ROF than Cleaver, and in a stand up fight against Cleaver, Aoba has lower chance of surviving, being able to punch hard with 8" and the range it offers makes Aoba leagues ahead of Cleaver in my books at least.

 

One reason that I se Aoba and Noonburger in better light than Cleaver is that - 

 

  1. You can count on your shells to hit or straddle things reliable at max range
  2. The flexibility offered by torpedoes

 

Well, those are just my opinion. I respect those that who view the Cleaver in favourable light as well and I salute them for the skill that they have commanding the Cleaver. I am willing to live with Citadel City and soft armour 

 

In fact, I've never seen USN CA/CL favourably since Phoenix onwards.

 

 

Edited by Makise_Kuristina

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Much thanks for your inputs everybody! Every little bit of data counts...

 

I played a few games just now to try out the suggestions on focusing more on HE and a little less on AP and guess what? Everyone and their grandma's burning scalps is turning their guns at me... I guess I must be doing something rather effective...

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The Cleveland is fun - APing cruisers who get too close is fun and HE Spam is fun too - I tend to play it very aggressively which either results in:

 

a: Epic wins

b: Epic Fails

 

(more fails than wins atm)

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Beta Tester
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Much thanks for your inputs everybody! Every little bit of data counts...

 

I played a few games just now to try out the suggestions on focusing more on HE and a little less on AP and guess what? Everyone and their grandma's burning scalps is turning their guns at me... I guess I must be doing something rather effective...

 

Since you talking about "Fire" (Becasue i cannot gib you any Cruiser advice im so noob at it) i can give you some suggestion about that :D:D:D

 

There 4 spot you can put up an Fire 

1 Bow section (front end of the ships)

2 Bridge

3 Smoke Stack (or some where before the stern)

4 Stern (rear end of the ships) 

 

And you only be able to put 1 fire for 1 spot so basically if you lid 1 fire up at the bridge try to shoot another section for more fire then enemy ship will burn like a Christmas tree (dont forget to say happy new year to him) :D:D:D

Edited by MeloMelonSoda

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If I remember the shell comparison table, Cleaver got the slowest shell speed and highest arc, the time to reach the target is damn painful but compensated with RoF.

 

AP? With Cleaver? I think we are talking about below 8km? When I face a Cleave in a IJN&KM CA/CL that uses AP, then I should not have much problem with him as long as I stayed mid range with a bit angle and hope that he doesn't spam HE at me (I can affored to go even closer in IJN CAs). In BB, those AP just bounce because of what Kuristina said, I think you better off using HE and frustrated them with rain of HE spam....

 

It's not like I'm encouraging HE spam or anything!:hiding:

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If I remember the shell comparison table, Cleaver got the slowest shell speed and highest arc, the time to reach the target is damn painful but compensated with RoF.

 

AP? With Cleaver? I think we are talking about below 8km? When I face a Cleave in a IJN&KM CA/CL that uses AP, then I should not have much problem with him as long as I stayed mid range with a bit angle and hope that he doesn't spam HE at me (I can affored to go even closer in IJN CAs). In BB, those AP just bounce because of what Kuristina said, I think you better off using HE and frustrated them with rain of HE spam....

 

It's not like I'm encouraging HE spam or anything!:hiding:

 

AP at less than 5 Km on the Cleveland is absolutely devastating - especially when you get 2-3 Citadels in a Salvo

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Alpha Tester
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Judging from your advice, Are you suggesting that I should Spam HE?? :trollface:

 

A nudge is as good as a wink to a blind bat....

 

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Alpha Tester
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Since you talking about "Fire" (Becasue i cannot gib you any Cruiser advice im so noob at it) i can give you some suggestion about that :D:D:D

 

There 4 spot you can put up an Fire 

1 Bow section (front end of the ships)

2 Bridge

3 Smoke Stack (or some where before the stern)

4 Stern (rear end of the ships) 

 

And you only be able to put 1 fire for 1 spot so basically if you lid 1 fire up at the bridge try to shoot another section for more fire then enemy ship will burn like a Christmas tree (dont forget to say happy new year to him) :D:D:D

 

I used my Cheatland for the Pax Australia challenge where you had to set ships on fire. I completed it in 6 battles haha. Of course, I was focusing on starting maximum amount of fires rather than just kills.

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I did it in 4. Including two games where 12 fires were set.

 

Another word of advice, as a destroyer, don't get close to a Cleveland - it never ends well...

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Beta Tester
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I recently just acquired my Cleveland and I'm still getting used to her. She does have this weird property (where I understand that this is a balancing issue) that the shells take a lot more time to get to target.

I am loving the Cleveland but she's still too new for me to give it my best performance. So far I've been relying on deck penetrating shots to get citadel hits at extreme ranges... but I know she can be much much better.

Sounds like Fantasy 200 - Cleveland Edition.

Anyone remember World of Sex? :trollface:

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Member
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Cleveland is a good ship, but as long as you are a good captain, first...

 

Haven't that applied to any ship, no matter how bad the ship is?

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Well, you're right. I'm not impressed by it. Even back in Closed Beta. Sure I was wowed by the forum goers and videos on Cleaver but when I got it, all the hype just went out into the trash can for me at least. 

 

I hate it for the fact that even at mid to point blank, the shells don't reliable fly or able to get a reliable aim

 

I hate it for the fact that I can ONLY rely on the guns to strike down my foes even at point mid range to point blank. At those ranges, I prefer to instakill my foes and torpedoes allows me to do that.

 

I hate it for the fact that it lacks the reliability and punching power of Aoba. Even if AOba is citadel city and has WAY slower ROF than Cleaver, and in a stand up fight against Cleaver, Aoba has lower chance of surviving, being able to punch hard with 8" and the range it offers makes Aoba leagues ahead of Cleaver in my books at least.

 

One reason that I se Aoba and Noonburger in better light than Cleaver is that - 

 

  1. You can count on your shells to hit or straddle things reliable at max range
  2. The flexibility offered by torpedoes

 

Well, those are just my opinion. I respect those that who view the Cleaver in favourable light as well and I salute them for the skill that they have commanding the Cleaver. I am willing to live with Citadel City and soft armour 

 

In fact, I've never seen USN CA/CL favourably since Phoenix onwards.

 

 

 

I find this interesting... It definitely comes down to personal preference...

 

It always comes down to who's piloting the ship, not just the ships physical abilities and stats.

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