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NguyenArchitakuVN

German carrier Graf Zeppelin

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So, as us - weebs are going absolute apesh*t after the release of some new shipgirls in Kantai Collection. I decided to do something about his new babe. 
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Graf Zeppelin-class was originally planned as a 4-ship class, including the lead ship, Graf Zeppelin (Flugzeugträger A) and 3 other ships: Flugzeugträger B, C and D. But the plan was changed to build 2 and more smaller carriers. They were influenced by Japanese carrier designs because the German lack of experience in building carriers.
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Only one ship, the Graf Zeppelin was launched but never completed. However, by the spring of 1942 the usefulness of aircraft carriers in modern naval warfare had been amply demonstrated, and on 13 May 1942, with Hitler's authorization, the German Naval Supreme Command ordered work resumed on the carrier. But due to technical problems, all progress was delayed and eventually cancelled. The ship was scuttled on 25 April 1945 to prevent her from falling into Soviets hand.

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Armament for self-defense: 
16 times 15 cm SK C/28;12 times Flak (10.5 cm); 22 times 3.7 cm SK C/30 (AA); 28 times Flak (2.0 cm).
Aircraft carried: 10 Bf 109 fighters; 13 Ju 87 dive bombers; 20 Fi 167 torpedo bombers.
Designed speed: Up to 35 knots.
Range: More than 14.000 km or 8000 nautical miles at 19 knots.
Displacement: 33,550 tonnes
Length: 262.5 m 
Beam: 31.5 m 

So, if this ship is added into the Kriegsmarine tech tree in WOWS, she is likely to be a tier VI. Consider her top speed is quite impressive, her aircraft loadout is quite good indeed. You all know how good the Bf 109 performs in WWII. 

 Extra
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Member
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She's a beaut :) I wonder if she'll come along in the KM line? Is Europa coming too? If you don't mind my asking...

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Super Tester
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Consider her top speed is quite impressive, her aircraft loadout is quite good indeed.

 

And then you realise she's larger than a Yorktown-class CV with less than half the amount of aircrafts carried.

Also her guns weren't for self defense, they were supposed to be used against freighters, since the ideaology behind Graf Zeppelin

was a carrier for convoy interception rather than fleet support.

 

I agree though, that she'll prolly be around tier V or VI, since her air wing is weak and the ship itself just not very good.

 


@Art:

That moment when random artists' work looks better than Fumikane's... :hiding:

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Super Tester
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So in other word she is a CV that actually defend herself without relying too much on her allies

 

Only if you get direct control over her guns, otherwise it'll be the same as with other CVs:

 

 I.e. Dodge all the cake rogue DDs throw at you and watch their hitpoints burn out slowly.

 

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Alpha Tester
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Only if you get direct control over her guns, otherwise it'll be the same as with other CVs:

 

 I.e. Dodge all the cake rogue DDs throw at you and watch their hitpoints burn out slowly.

 

A1NiGmR.jpg

ZoHLIc1.jpg

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oIMImRf.jpg

 

Not in-game but IRL.

If that exactly happen in game then the waters of WoWS instantly becomes a no-go zone for destroyers

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Beta Tester
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And then you realise she's larger than a Yorktown-class CV with less than half the amount of aircrafts carried.

Yeah! Ikr... Yorktown would be a tier VIII while this thing is just a tier VI, and must be a tier VI because Bf 109s are just gonna chew on those Bogue's and Zuiho's fighters.

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Super Tester
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Not in-game but IRL.

If that exactly happen in game then the waters of WoWS instantly becomes a no-go zone for destroyers

 

Irl a lot of older CVs had guns, plenty of them.

Akagi for example had 10 guns and Lexington 8.

 

Graf Zeppelin had a larger amount of guns because it was thought she would mostly do convoy intercepting duties.

Hence once a freighter had surrendered to her air wing the guns would give the crew another reason not to try anything stupid.

Plus since she was supposed to do convoy intercepting the theoretical chances of having to directly engage escort ships or armed

freighters was higher.

 

As you might imagine that was quite the blunder on our part...

 

Bf 109s are just gonna chew on those Bogue's and Zuiho's fighters.

 

There's a metric ton of different Bf 109 models, the earliest ones are far inferior to any (back then) modern biplanes.

Bf 109 is just the designation for this family of aircrafts.

 

Edit: And this is WG we're talking about so basically anything can be used. ;P

Edited by Retia

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Beta Tester
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There's a metric ton of different Bf 109 models, the earliest ones are far inferior to any (back then) modern biplanes.

Bf 109 is just the designation for this family of aircrafts.

 

Edit: And this is WG we're talking about so basically anything can be used. ;P

I'm just gonna say one thing. Even the experimental version of the Bf 109 will be enough to chew up the best biplane on the Bogue.

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Super Tester
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I'm just gonna say one thing. Even the experimental version of the Bf 109 will be enough to chew up the best biplane on the Bogue.

 

Nope, the original prototypes and first factory sets were worse than anything the French or British had to offer.

In their first trials during conflicts like the Spanish civil war the Bf 109 got out nicely due to fighting badly trained and inexperienced spanish pilots

with old soviet biplanes.

Hence I would assume that they won't get off much better against Bogue's biplanes.

 

Later on the Bf 109s were well enough developed to take on allied fighters.

Mind you though, at the time of the invasion of France the Bf109s available were inferior to the modern french aircrafts.

The french machines had slightly better flight performance, but what made them much superior was the amount of time they

could stay in the air.

 

Sadly the french military was largely under the control of the right wing party.

And as you might imagine the right wing party didn't want Germany to lose... <.<

Edited by Retia

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Beta Tester
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While the Graf Zepplin would be a suitable German CV candidate for tier 5-6, I am still lost as to how they are going to fill the rest of the tech tree given how few aircraft and even fewer ships they could possibly use for the German Navy. 

 

In terms of real ships, the only ones I can think of aside from the Graf Zepplin are the Italian Aircraft Carrier Aquila (since they captured her) and stretching the possibilities French Aircraft Carrier Bearn (which given the Pro Vichy Leanings of her crew could have surrendered to the Germans) 

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I'm just gonna say one thing. Even the experimental version of the Bf 109 will be enough to chew up the best biplane on the Bogue.

Let's do some comparisons:

 

USS Bogue:

 

Curtiss F6C Biplane

Top speed: 250 km/h

Armament: 2 x 7.92mm M1919 Browning  (~0.33 kg/s burst mass)

Construction: Metal fuselage, wooden/fabric wings

 

DKM Graf Zeppelin

 

Bf 109 B-1 Monoplane

Top speed: 465 km/h

Armament: 2 x 7.92mm MG 17 (~0.39 kg/s burst mass)

Construction: All metal

 

The Bf 109 has clear advantages over the F2C. It's sleeker, having close to twice the top speed of the F6C. It has slightly better armament, but not by a noticeable amount. It's also an all metal design, making it tougher compared to the F6C. In short, it's superior in just about every way...

 

Except turn time.

 

We can assume that the biplanes of the USN and IJN turn much more tightly compared to the monoplane Bf 109. This can mean a lot in a dogfight, as it means that the Bf 109 will find it much harder to keep on the tail of the biplanes used by the USN/IJN. In WoWS, that can be reflected by having the Bf 109 squadrons deal less DPS, not by decreasing damage per click but by reducing the amount of clicks per second. This would reflect the inability of the 109 to consistently deal damage to the slower biplanes.

 

This combination of factors would make the 109 an ideal bomber hunter, but suffer against fighter squadrons.

 

Overall, however, the fact that the 109 can easily outrun pursuers and catch up to prey means that it would be very overpowered  in a T5 environment.

 

If we compare 109 to other fighters and planes in the game, they'd probably fit in best at Tier 6, where the planes of the USN and IJN start to get more advantages compared to the 109 (F3F has better damage and comparable speed, A5M has similar speed and better turn time). 

 

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^

The 109 would have no problem dealing with those bi-planes fighters as they would without any question "boom and zoom" them, not at any stage would they bother trying to turn with them and loss their advantage in speed and climb.

 The plane earmarked for the Graf Zeppelin where the bf109T, which is just the carrier version of the bf109E

Edited by BigWaveSurfer

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^

The 109 would have no problem dealing with those bi-planes fighters as they would without any question "boom and zoom" them, not at any stage would they bother trying to turn with them and loss their advantage in speed and climb.

 The plane earmarked for the Graf Zeppelin where the bf109T, which is just the carrier version of the bf109E

 

Then again, WG isn't exactly known for sticking to historical plane loadouts for carriers, eh? If we had historically accurate plane loadouts, Zuiho would be flying D3A1s and D4Ys.

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There was also the Seydlitz. A cruiser of the Hipper Class that was being converted. Probably something on the lines of Independence. 

Also 2 CVE's converted from Transport ships. 

The Italian Aquila had  a sister ship as well.

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 Armament for self-defense: 16 times 15 cm SK C/28;12 times Flak (10.5 cm); 22 times 3.7 cm SK C/30 (AA); 28 times Flak (2.0 cm).

 

Okay, that's more secondaries than a CA :amazed:

Hope that it has torps too, total package :trollface:

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