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Yob80

American Cruisers, or why do I have to shoot sub orbital shells?

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Why is the firing arc on american cruisers of all kinds so horrendous?  What makes them so much different to their IJN counterparts that one shoots an almost flat trjectory, which is much easier to judge, while the other launches its shells into space and then waits for them to reenter the earths atmosphere.  On top of that the shells themselves seem to fly incredibly slow.

 

Its like they are having to fire at about 60deg elevated to get max range on some of them, the Atlanta is the worst, anything beyond about 8klms and your having to literally zoom out to keep the enemy ship in the screen while aiming at a point almost a few klms ahead of it.

 

I just can not seen a justification for it affecting US cruisers over IJN ones.  If its for balance, then there must be a better way to do it than saying "lol lets make these guns try to shoot down satellites".  Now im starting to get into higher tiers as well (8+) I am seeing stuff all US cruisers, which also tells me there is something very wrong with them if they are not being used, and this I would think could be a massive contributing factor.  They could drop the firing arc by about 1/3rd and it would still be different enough from IJN guns to be a "balance" item but would actually make hitting anything at any kind of range much easier.

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Member
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Rate of Fire is the answer you are looking for - the USN Cruisers are beasts once you close to below 8 Km - seriously, a Cleveland with HE against DDs or AP against Cruisers at less than 10 Km range is devestating.

 

I haven't played the IJN cruiser line yet - but I understand their guns hit harder, fire much slower and have a better shell arc, and they have Torps - but the Americans shoot faster.

 

Possibly subscribing to the theorem 'Fire till it clicks and let god sort them out'

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Beta Tester
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go for pensacola or higher tier USN cruiser with 203 cannon if you wanted better firing arch. pensacola and higher tier can citadel cruiser with expose side armor at long distance without problem, they also have faster shell velocity so they are better at sinking destroyer at longer range that cleveland or atlanta.

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Rate of Fire is the answer you are looking for - the USN Cruisers are beasts once you close to below 8 Km - seriously, a Cleveland with HE against DDs or AP against Cruisers at less than 10 Km range is devestating.

 

I haven't played the IJN cruiser line yet - but I understand their guns hit harder, fire much slower and have a better shell arc, and they have Torps - but the Americans shoot faster.

 

Possibly subscribing to the theorem 'Fire till it clicks and let god sort them out'

 

Yeah, no:

Tier US CA Main Battery IJN CA Main Battery
VII Pensacola 2x3 + 2x2 @ 4.0 RPM Myoukou 4x2 @ 4.3 RPM
VIII New Orleans 3x3 @ 4.3 RPM Mogami 5x2 @ 4.0 RPM
IX Baltimore 3x3 @ 4.6 RPM Ibuki 5x2 @ 4.0 RPM
X Des Moines 3x3 @ 10.0 RPM Zao 4x3 @ 4.4 RPM

Only the Des Moines has a meaningful RoF advantage. The difference between 4.6 and 4.0 RPM is 2 seconds less reload time.

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Yeah, no:

Tier US CA Main Battery IJN CA Main Battery
VII Pensacola 2x3 + 2x2 @ 4.0 RPM Myoukou 4x2 @ 4.3 RPM
VIII New Orleans 3x3 @ 4.3 RPM Mogami 5x2 @ 4.0 RPM
IX Baltimore 3x3 @ 4.6 RPM Ibuki 5x2 @ 4.0 RPM
X Des Moines 3x3 @ 10.0 RPM Zao 4x3 @ 4.4 RPM

Only the Des Moines has a meaningful RoF advantage. The difference between 4.6 and 4.0 RPM is 2 seconds less reload time.

 

When your reload is 15 seconds - a 2 second difference is significant - getting a second salvo away before you get nailed again can drastically improve your survivability

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Beta Tester
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Isn't it easier to perform plunging fire with such high firing arc? I found no problem with my Cleveland. It might be useless against fast moving cruiser or destroyer at long range but very effective against slow moving battleship. Plunging fire helps you hit the wooden deck easier, rather than hitting the armored hull and cause 0 damage...

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Senior Moderator
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Isn't it easier to perform plunging fire with such high firing arc? I found no problem with my Cleveland. It might be useless against fast moving cruiser or destroyer at long range but very effective against slow moving battleship. Plunging fire helps you hit the wooden deck easier, rather than hitting the armored hull and cause 0 damage...

 

That depends on the Angle of Fall. E.g. Cleveland's AoF at 14 km is less than 25ø, which is within the autobounce angle for AP when hitting the deck. You have to extend its range to get AoF that will exceed the autobounce angle.

 

HE will never bounce at any angle, so it doesn't matter whether it is plunging fire or not, but it still must penetrate to deal damage. However, HE will only penetrate armor up to 1/6th of the shell's caliber, e.g. 6" HE shells can only penetrate up to 1" of armor, so heavily armored main decks would be impenetrable to it.

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Beta Tester
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That depends on the Angle of Fall. E.g. Cleveland's AoF at 14 km is less than 25ø, which is within the autobounce angle for AP when hitting the deck. You have to extend its range to get AoF that will exceed the autobounce angle.

 

HE will never bounce at any angle, so it doesn't matter whether it is plunging fire or not, but it still must penetrate to deal damage. However, HE will only penetrate armor up to 1/6th of the shell's caliber, e.g. 6" HE shells can only penetrate up to 1" of armor, so heavily armored main decks would be impenetrable to it.

 

14 km range is the standard range of every Cleveland, but who ever manages to get the Cleveland usually gets enough captain points to get "Advanced Firing Training". That will increase the range to more than 17 km. 

HE doesn't need to penetrate to cause damage. Just smash into the target and explode. Hitting wooden deck of battleships will not cause much damage but has significantly higher chance of setting the enemy on fire. Consider the number of guns the Cheatland has... That ship is truly a flamethrower.

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Senior Moderator
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HE doesn't need to penetrate to cause damage. Just smash into the target and explode. Hitting wooden deck of battleships will not cause much damage but has significantly higher chance of setting the enemy on fire. Consider the number of guns the Cheatland has... That ship is truly a flamethrower.

 

Wrong. HE must penetrate to cause damage. Otherwise, the only damage it can do is fire damage or module damage.

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Beta Tester
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Wrong. HE must penetrate to cause damage. Otherwise, the only damage it can do is fire damage or module damage.

 

No... I watched the WG video explaining the game mechanism. It said that HE doesn't have to penetrate to cause damage. AP does.

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No... I watched the WG video explaining the game mechanism. It said that HE doesn't have to penetrate to cause damage. AP does.

 

Dev post explaining damage mechanics: http://forum.worldofwarships.ru/index.php?/topic/34211-о-модели-повреждений/

Info translated and included in this thread: http://forum.worldofwarships.asia/index.php?/topic/7695-dealing-damage-in-wows/

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Beta Tester
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The post made by you stated clearly that HE doesn't have to penetrate to cause damage, sir. It said that HE will detonate on impact, immediately and does not ricochet. Have you even read your own post?

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The post made by you stated clearly that HE doesn't have to penetrate to cause damage, sir. It said that HE will detonate on impact, immediately and does not ricochet. Have you even read your own post?

 

Show me where it says it will deal damage.

 

Detonate != Cause damage

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Beta Tester
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The post made by you stated clearly that HE doesn't have to penetrate to cause damage, sir. It said that HE will detonate on impact, immediately and does not ricochet. Have you even read your own post?

 

i think you're the one that didn't read

 

"Additionally, the damage also depends on the volume of the intersection of the blast radius with the module itself. The ship's HP is not affected at all by splash damage, a non-penetration or near miss from a HE shell may cause module damage without even taking a single Hit Point off the ship."

 

" it can start fires and damage modules without penetrating"

 

Next time read everything carefully or you turn every discussion into a religious debate.

Edited by Deicide

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Member
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Explain why I do NO damage when hitting a USN BB with my Cleveland or other small caliber guns if you said HE do damage at all time?

 

HE don't need to penetrate, but it requires the hit area to have low armour protection (like hitting the armor belt do nothing)

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Beta Tester
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Explain why I do NO damage when hitting a USN BB with my Cleveland or other small caliber guns if you said HE do damage at all time?

 

HE don't need to penetrate, but it requires the hit area to have low armour protection (like hitting the armor belt do nothing)

 

I dont have any evidence about this but "I heard that" every certain part of the ship have a certain hit pool, lets say if you keep hitting the bow of Yamato with HE it may deplete 8000-9000 HP but after that certain part HP deplete you wont be able to deal anymore damage.

 

But if your shell hitting other part like stern you should be to deal more damage to other part.

 

Again i don't have any evidence to back my theories this is just "what i heard" over the internet :D:D:D   

Edited by MeloMelonSoda

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Beta Tester
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Explain why I do NO damage when hitting a USN BB with my Cleveland or other small caliber guns if you said HE do damage at all time?

 

HE don't need to penetrate, but it requires the hit area to have low armour protection (like hitting the armor belt do nothing)

 

if you're not doing any damage, then it means the parts of that battleship you are shooting are armored so low caliber HE can't do any damage or it already has 0 hp left. try shooting different parts of the ship.

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Super Tester
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if you're not doing any damage, then it means the parts of that battleship you are shooting are armored so low caliber HE can't do any damage or it already has 0 hp left. try shooting different parts of the ship.

 

In this case... superstructure is ur best target :> (or I should say superstructure is always the best part for HE )

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