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ShadowPolack

Excessive DD advantages

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   I'm really tired of seeing a destroyer at say 10-12 kilometers, see them disappear and 5 minutes later have its

torpedoes suddenly appear with no time or space to maneuver.  If I can see them long distance, they should not 

be able to disappear and ambush me.  And no, I'm not talking about their smoke screen.  Also, at under 3 kilometers

and both of us firing flat trajectory shots, how can they blink out (disappear from view) and then blink back in?  This ain't Star Trek and WWI/WWII era ships did not have stealth capabilities.

 

   I recently was in a battle with numerous islands in a St. Louis.  I was passing by an island with about a 1500'

hill when air-launched torpedoes suddenly appeared.  I know this is a game but realistically, torps are dropped from around 50-125' from a slow-moving level aircraft.  If you try to dive-bomb drop it, it will break up on impact

or dive to the bottom.  This should not be allowed to happen.  Those of us who understand the mechanics of

historical combat are put at a disadvantage by something happening that we know is impossible.  You really should look into this.

 

   I'm really having a problem accepting that my 12" and 14" battleship guns have a shorter range than certain

6" and 8" cruiser guns.  Granted that they are throwing a lighter round, but its thru a shorter gun barrel.  A 6"

50 caliber gun barrel is still shorter than a 12" 45 caliber barrel.  Can you explain this or if it's incorrect, fix it.

 

    Many thanks.

 

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Beta Tester
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think about the DD

 

DD can do nothing without concealment

if a lower tier DD(I assume that as you keep mentioning low tier ships and guns) can be seen >10km

then even a JP DD will be spotted at least 3km before it can launch its torpedo

they even can't fire their guns at 10km

with their low HP and weak armor

what can be done in a DD?

 

don't be so selfish to think about yourself only

this is an online game, you want to have fun, neither do we?

 

if you're talking about historical accuracy

sorry, this is WG

if you want reality, join the navy/wait for the naval battle in WarThunder

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Member
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I agree with you op, but under the condition that DDs have less repair costs.

 

If your idea were to be implemented without cheaper repair costs for DD drivers, i fear that the already threatened population of DD drivers might face a sudden extinction.

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Super Tester
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You know what, almost the same repair price as ZAO, if shimakaze take just one hit of HE, he is going to be needed to pay 10times more than Zao take one HE hit(never calculated it, but you know what i am talking about)  

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Beta Tester
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destroyer strength lays with its concealment and mobility so its normal for DD players to utilize it on their advantage. only idiots will stay very close to hostile ship just to get one shot by he shells.

 

dd has weaker guns

dd has no armor

dd has low HP

dd can easily lose its gun or torpedo

high chance to get module damage

torpedo can be spotted miles away

ship launch torpedo can be easily avoided

has voice warning telling you where the torpedo are coming from

very little aa so planes can be pesky to keep spotting them.

 

what dd excessive dd advantage are you saying?

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Lol, DDs have the lowest survivability of all ships.  The stats can show you... we also have pretty much the lowest win rate.  And most struggle to just stay alive from tier 7 and up because of the imense upgrades and advantages of the other ship classes.

 

Our only advantage, is our ability to hide.  

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 I'm really tired of seeing a destroyer at say 10-12 kilometers, see them disappear and 5 minutes later have its

torpedoes suddenly appear with no time or space to maneuver.  If I can see them long distance, they should not 

be able to disappear and ambush me.  And no, I'm not talking about their smoke screen.  Also, at under 3 kilometers

and both of us firing flat trajectory shots, how can they blink out (disappear from view) and then blink back in?  This ain't Star Trek and WWI/WWII era ships did not have stealth capabilities.

 

1. That 5 minutes was your time to maneuver.

2. If its blinking in and out of firing range, its in smoke, which means you should probably be turning away from it to avoid surprise torpedoes. That's also your time to maneuver.

3. At under 3km ranges, absolute detection should be in place, which means you'll be seeing them regardless of their detectability. But given that all DDs have torpedoes, you really don't WANT to let a destroyer get in that range of you. Which means map awareness.

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If for no other reason other than to "know thine enemy" the OP really should try playing DD's. I think he will find that getting into a position to successfully launch torps is much more difficult to achieve than would appear when he is on the receiving end.

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The concealment is actually fine, it's just the blinks are painful in the eyes most of the time, that's why if instead of a blink, we get fade in/fade out style of concealment, then it may be a bit forgiving. This shall also be applied on ships in the distance, not just DDs.

 

So if this is the case, especially on a BB, boosting the secondaries might help, as I mentioned on another thread a while ago, on 1 v 1, BBs will never be "the last hope" of a team if it comes up to this circumstance.

 

On the other hand, if there's a team collaborative EXP per game, then CL/CA will support BBs since they'll also will get a share in the work they provided :), then we won't have to worry about the blinking DDs, besides, BB will not make a hit in its current shell dispersion, secondaries won't fire that far, so just abandon the ship hahahha. 

 

The only thing unworthy of the perks, is the smoke. It must be a two-way handicap. If ships outside the smoke can see you, ships within the smoke shall not see the others outside. In short, smoke must only be for DEF and to be used to escape the heated area.

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   I've seen them blink out and in at less than 3 kilometers.  Where is the disadvantage?  What DD has to get that close to loose torpedoes?  Most if not all have at least a 5 or more kilometer range.  Again, where is their disadvantage?  I have fired on over 70 DD's in over 400 battles.  In all, I have managed to score a devastating strike only once and it was run aground.  I have fought at knife fighting distance with a BB vs a DD, hit it 3 times with 12' shell and not killed it but was sunk by its torpedoes.  You all keep harping about their vulnerability but I find it difficult to sink them without an extremely lucky shot.  I don't know what ships you are using as I have used all various countries ships except carriers.  Oh, a reminder, the blink out and in was not due to smoke.

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I think you need to have a bit more patience with your game.  You have used BBs  up to tier 8 right? With no more then 40 battles in each US BB... you need to practice more, or work in a group.

 

Also, you seem to be experienced in cruisers.... but no Dd experience beyond tier 3  You should give dds a try so you can see how they operate. Also.... working Alone.... as a BB,CL/CA or CV... is a DD captains best prey.

Edited by kultabashi

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 ShadowPolack-

 "I'm really having a problem accepting that my 12" and 14" battleship guns have a shorter range than certain

6" and 8" cruiser guns.  Granted that they are throwing a lighter round, but its thru a shorter gun barrel.  A 6"

50 caliber gun barrel is still shorter than a 12" 45 caliber barrel.  Can you explain this or if it's incorrect, fix it."


 

In regards to you gun range question most WWI BB had a max gun elevation of around 20 degrees, this is the reason for the short ranges. Between the wars most upgraded ships from WWI had the max elevation raised, thus raising the max firing range.

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   I've seen them blink out and in at less than 3 kilometers.  Where is the disadvantage?  What DD has to get that close to loose torpedoes?  Most if not all have at least a 5 or more kilometer range.  Again, where is their disadvantage?  I have fired on over 70 DD's in over 400 battles.  In all, I have managed to score a devastating strike only once and it was run aground.  I have fought at knife fighting distance with a BB vs a DD, hit it 3 times with 12' shell and not killed it but was sunk by its torpedoes.  You all keep harping about their vulnerability but I find it difficult to sink them without an extremely lucky shot.  I don't know what ships you are using as I have used all various countries ships except carriers.  Oh, a reminder, the blink out and in was not due to smoke.

 

again, like what they said on top if you saw them blinking in and out it means they are using smoke while moving too fast. there no dd with a concealment lower than 4km and at 2km you can detect them even inside the smoke. if you saw dd you should immediately start changing direction wildly of off set their torpedo aim at you. destroyer are most vulnerable when they are trying to torpedo their target because they are exposing their broadside so by wiggling your ship, not only you can evade their torpedo it might also delay their torpedo launching and expose their broadside longer.

 

you should also learn to sail with team mates, specially cruisers. because sailing alone as a big fat battleship is like inviting CV and dd to torpedo you.

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ST Coordinator
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   I've seen them blink out and in at less than 3 kilometers.  Where is the disadvantage?  What DD has to get that close to loose torpedoes?  Most if not all have at least a 5 or more kilometer range.  Again, where is their disadvantage?  I have fired on over 70 DD's in over 400 battles.  In all, I have managed to score a devastating strike only once and it was run aground.  I have fought at knife fighting distance with a BB vs a DD, hit it 3 times with 12' shell and not killed it but was sunk by its torpedoes.  You all keep harping about their vulnerability but I find it difficult to sink them without an extremely lucky shot.  I don't know what ships you are using as I have used all various countries ships except carriers.  Oh, a reminder, the blink out and in was not due to smoke.

 

Their disadvantage? Please play a destroyer and try doing the same stuff that you say is so "easily" killing you. Then come back and let us know how that went.

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   I've seen them blink out and in at less than 3 kilometers.  Where is the disadvantage?  What DD has to get that close to loose torpedoes?  Most if not all have at least a 5 or more kilometer range.  Again, where is their disadvantage?  I have fired on over 70 DD's in over 400 battles.  In all, I have managed to score a devastating strike only once and it was run aground.  I have fought at knife fighting distance with a BB vs a DD, hit it 3 times with 12' shell and not killed it but was sunk by its torpedoes.  You all keep harping about their vulnerability but I find it difficult to sink them without an extremely lucky shot.  I don't know what ships you are using as I have used all various countries ships except carriers.  Oh, a reminder, the blink out and in was not due to smoke.

 

DD vulnerability is to cruisers, which eat DD's for breakfast. Cruiser vulnerability is BB's, which eat CA's for breakfast. Can you guess what a BB's vulnerability is against?

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Super Tester
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yes, for BB, they have really clear disadvantage(like its a nice target, slow, easy to detect, etc), but forDD, you cant really feel the disadvantage if you dont play it. you know why? its because that when the disadvantage of the DD has been brought to the open side, that DD will die instantly(weak AA that can be killed by CV easilycan not get rid of FTs spotting you, weak armor and low HP that you can not survive the next HE salvo, torps that wont even hit if they are found by other DD or planes, easier to lose money because you can die really fast, every one hates DD so that you will mostly die the next moment because they all fire at you and you cant even fire back because you will be found with further distance,etc)

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   Sorry, I need to raise the BS flag.  I have played the DD as you say:  quarter or half speed, hide behind an island and sneak out at quarter speed and loose torpedoes and don't use guns as they give your position away.  I seldom died.  I even nailed a battleship at under 3 kilometer distance.  So where is my disadvantage?  Even with cruisers, I have tried single shot and salvo firing and watched my shells fall all around a DD without a single hit.  Meanwhile, he and his compatriots are shooting guns and torpedoes at me and doing more damage than I am causing.  So, no, I do not share your feelings about DD's.  In fact, I hate them and will go out of my way to nail them, even ramming if necessary.  I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

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   Sorry, I need to raise the BS flag.  I have played the DD as you say:  quarter or half speed, hide behind an island and sneak out at quarter speed and loose torpedoes and don't use guns as they give your position away.  I seldom died.  I even nailed a battleship at under 3 kilometer distance.  So where is my disadvantage?  Even with cruisers, I have tried single shot and salvo firing and watched my shells fall all around a DD without a single hit.  Meanwhile, he and his compatriots are shooting guns and torpedoes at me and doing more damage than I am causing.  So, no, I do not share your feelings about DD's.  In fact, I hate them and will go out of my way to nail them, even ramming if necessary.  I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

 

Congratulations, you a nature DD player :D:D:D

 

May be considering quitting BB and move over to the DD ? i think you might be enjoy playing it. 

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   Sorry, I need to raise the BS flag.  I have played the DD as you say:  quarter or half speed, hide behind an island and sneak out at quarter speed and loose torpedoes and don't use guns as they give your position away.  I seldom died.  I even nailed a battleship at under 3 kilometer distance.  So where is my disadvantage?  Even with cruisers, I have tried single shot and salvo firing and watched my shells fall all around a DD without a single hit.  Meanwhile, he and his compatriots are shooting guns and torpedoes at me and doing more damage than I am causing.  So, no, I do not share your feelings about DD's.  In fact, I hate them and will go out of my way to nail them, even ramming if necessary.  I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

 

Played 32 games in destroyers. Total warships destroyed - 6. Total battles survived - 3. Average destroyer experience per match - 288.

 

"Seldom died", huh.

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Super Tester
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   Sorry, I need to raise the BS flag.  I have played the DD as you say:  quarter or half speed, hide behind an island and sneak out at quarter speed and loose torpedoes and don't use guns as they give your position away.  I seldom died.  I even nailed a battleship at under 3 kilometer distance.  So where is my disadvantage?  Even with cruisers, I have tried single shot and salvo firing and watched my shells fall all around a DD without a single hit.  Meanwhile, he and his compatriots are shooting guns and torpedoes at me and doing more damage than I am causing.  So, no, I do not share your feelings about DD's.  In fact, I hate them and will go out of my way to nail them, even ramming if necessary.  I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

 

well, then, i think i will have to ask which tier are you playing now. i dont really wanna say this, but the disadvantage of DD increases with by going to higher tier (cuz there are insane CV!!!!)
Edited by yukionfire

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well, then, i think i will have to ask which tier are you playing now. i dont really wanna say this, but the disadvantage of DD increases with by going to higher tier

 

Even at the tier he's playing (2-3), he's not doing too good in what he's claiming to be an overly advantageous class.

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Played 32 games in destroyers. Total warships destroyed - 6. Total battles survived - 3. Average destroyer experience per match - 288.

 

"Seldom died", huh.

 

Thats why i'm telling him just move over to the DDs because he is so pro, we can have more pro DDs player in high Tiers :D:D:D

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Super Tester
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Even at the tier he's playing (2-3), he's not doing too good in what he's claiming to be an overly advantageous class.

 

hmm, isee....... i dont think that having average damage of 4200 is actually effective for the team and to the enemy team....

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Beta Tester
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I was once fired 62 knot torpedoes at Amagi at 2-3 km range in Hatsuharu and the Amagi managed to evade every single of them and then I died as the Amagi fired its gun back.

 

And I never blamed that BB for being OP.:hiding:

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