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yanyatcheng

dispersion is just a joke

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Member
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501 battles

so..... they set *any ship's* dispersion to *for example 300*, and than their spread will be 300m AT ANY RANGE

 

What is that logic.

 

add spread cone in this game asap, we can't tolerate ships firing at 5 km and miss 50% of his shot because of "dispersion" which are badly set.

 

give ship a minium dispersion at their minium range LOGICALLY, and make their hit worth, the one who got first shot gets the kill, or the most hit, not the one with the blessing of RNGeesus

 

 

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Super Tester
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the 1 shown in port is max dispersion at the max range.

now BB has gotten pretty serious buff .

if BB shooting at point blank range (<3kilo) it almost pin point accuracy.

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Super Tester
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Game balance.

 

Had WG set everything as it is, carriers would reign supreme, cruisers protect carriers, destroyers would be raiding, we'd see ships as soon as they came around the island..

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Alpha Tester
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How can u miss 50% at 5km?? Even Kawachi isn't that bad :amazed:

 

In fact it's ENTIRELY possible. Even in a New York with 241m @ 18.1km. I've fired hell knows how many broadsides at STATIONARY targets and MISSED with all shots at close range. Yeah, they were small targets, but it's possible.

 

I see people write how they "never have problems hitting things that are close blah blah" and I think "what a steaming pile of bull****" or "they're playing a different version of this game/ship than I".

 

'Aiming' in this game involves putting the impact oval (think arty in WoT) where you think your target will be when your shells get there and firing. You can watch the hilariously crazy dispersion of shots FROM THE SAME TURRET as they leave your guns. You then hope, because even the most perfectly aimed broadside is entirely capable of missing if the dispersion is large enough. 

 

Pretending otherwise is illogical, and misleading to others who read it.

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Member
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Have to agree with Steeltrap here, even though I don't have his experience.

But everything he has said I witnessed last night. I started using shell tracking camera for most of my shots, and even at 5km the dispersion was bloody awful.

And its not just the BB's. I am primarily a crusier captain, and while not as bad, they are still far from what I would consider acceptable.

One match last night in my Cleveland saw and end result of 520+ shots fired for 123 hits.....and over half of those shots wouldhave been within 8km.

 

Yeah a lot of it could be due to the dodgy hit detection mechanic.......but am not even going to start down THAT road.

 

Cheers

 

Coldbeer

Edited by coldbeer72

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Member
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I am actually using Kongo with accuracy upgrade. K missed because of the heavy RNG they've put into the game and they didn't add dispersion cone.

I got good aim and all the rounds land around the ciditdel

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Super Tester
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I am actually using Kongo with accuracy upgrade. K missed because of the heavy RNG they've put into the game and they didn't add dispersion cone.

I got good aim and all the rounds land around the ciditdel

 

actually. the dispersion is like a cone.

its very big (300m-ish) at max range and small at close range. but the dispersion is not 0 (probably around 100m-ish).

at recent update.(forgot which 1) they buffed BB's accuracy by reducing the dispersion at point blank range.

they made BB shoot at pin point accuracy at range <3 kilos. while keep the same amount of dispersion at max range.

those resulted overall accuracy buff to almost any range except the max range.

 

 

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Super Tester
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Dispersion is modelled incorrectly in this game anyway, I've complained about it forever in CBT but I've long since given up because of WG fanboys who go "muh balance" and "muh arcade game"

 

its not even fun anymore when you miss shots that you should've hit at point blank ranges

 

but what really pisses me off about dispersion is shells deviating left and right when shot from the SAME TURRET

 

HOW ON EARTH DOES THAT HAPPEN IN ANY LOGICAL WAY. Dispersion is suppose to be only ahead or behind the target, never 300m to the left or right.

 

The way its modelled makes the game feel like we're playing in stormy conditions, with 800m/s winds that change every 2seconds in what is effectively a category 10 storm that would flip all of us over if it actually happened.

Edited by iLordShade

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Alpha Tester
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^

You're not meant to think too closely about it. And then the fan-brigade will jump in the forum and tell you it's your fault and that their BBs of the same tier barely miss anything, apparently.

 

Meanwhile about an hour ago I fired at a Murmansk that had run aground...from Myogi...at about 12km...broadside on to me, too...and they all missed. Twice. 

 

I suggested elsewhere in the forum that firing at stationary ships, or indeed those going very slowly, might reduce your dispersion. It would lessen the chance of these sorts of irritations, and might also do something about the plague of people going astern in the middle of the ocean (which makes me want to puke every time I see it it's so ridiculous). It also has the merit of being somewhat reflective of the reality of the day, where moving made it harder to hit you than it did for you to hit. The obvious consequence of that was if you could move, you did. People might want to look up Mers-el-Kebir for a good illustration of that principle i.e. it's MUCH better to be moving than not.

 

But, no, I pretty much got told I was ranting about something that wasn't an issue. If there were training rooms, I'd like to do some tests to illustrate some of what I was on about (firing at a stationary Omaha/Murmansk at about 12km with New York and not hitting once...with 20 shots...because it was bow on to me; that sort of nonsense I consider an exploit, but apparently I know nothing).

 

You kind of have to accept certain aspects of this game design will produce results that should make anyone cringe, especially if they have any knowledge of the hardware of the period.

 

I've kind of got to the point where I hardly play because so much of it for me is plain silly/badly balanced/simply not fun, so it's not as though I'm losing sleep over it.

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Beta Tester
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^ yes it should be a lot easier to hit a ship that is not moving, it really is annoying when you aim at the middle of a ship, that's not moving and all your shots land either side of it, and yes 2-3 times you fire but nothing hits the ship.

Its like you need to aim off to one side in the water and then fire just to hit the damn thing.

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Alpha Tester
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Not to mention that the numbers shown in port are sometimes completely wrong.

 

Take the Fuso and Nagato for example.

 

Even with only firing 4 of her 6 turrets, the Fuso is MUCH more accurate at her maximum range than the Nagato is, yet the Nagato has a 30+/-m smaller dispersion, at a shorter maximum range. Arguing that the gun caliber adds to the dispersion doesnt exactly add substance to the argument either, as even IF the caliber altered the dispersion, the stat cards would reflect that.

 

Simply put, Nagato is no where near as accurate as shes said to be be in the stat card, even with the accuracy Upgrade installed.

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Alpha Tester
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^

Sadly that's just WG's addiction to keeping vital info from their customers.

 

Who'd have thought, for example, that the TIER of your ship affects the chance to catch on fire? And where is THAT displayed to the players? It isn't.

 

Before anyone simply accuses me of being perpetually negative, there is, ironically, a desire for things to be BETTER behind my complaints.

 

Take that simple example of fire chances etc. If you don't understand the IN-GAME fire chance calculation, you are not in a position to make an INFORMED CHOICE about commander skills and upgrades as you might reasonably believe a 7% reduction in fire chance means one thing when in fact it means another. Plus the 'hidden' value for tier. I believe there's even a hidden one for some nation's ships, such as IJN CAs having a greater % (not listed) of causing fires than their USN counterparts at some tiers.

 

So the players, unsurprisingly, for expectations and then 'feel' those to be incorrect. "Why does my tier x ship always seem to be on fire?" is a common enough complaint/question.

 

It should be entirely possible for players to be armed with the correct info so as to know what the chance of a fire being started by any single shell from any single ship hitting them, but it isn't the case.

 

That's ONE simple example. I've little doubt there are more.

 

The less information, let alone CORRECT info, you give players, the more players will "make stuff up" or at least get them wrong. There's a danger of people believing all sorts of things that aren't true simply because those who can correct those errors choose not to.

 

I for one will never agree with that philosophy.

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Super Tester
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Meanwhile once I'm aimed in on a target I'll usually keep hitting it unless there are major course/position changes.

I guess it's just RnG favouring me, gotta be lucky~

Edited by Retia

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Alpha Tester
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Must be Retia. I absolutely despise the Nagato.... i would rather have a Myogi on my team than a Nagato, thats how much i hate it hah

 

As for what you say Steeltrap, i fully agree. Though i can deduce straight away from looking, to use your example, that IJN 203mms have a higher chance to cause a fire than that of the US 203mm's, thats all well and good, but with the ship "i" am playing, i would like to know what chance my ship has of being set on fire. IJN ships of course will have a higher chance due to having wooden decks, whereas majority of US ships either dont, or have/had flame retardant paint on their decks, but i would like to know the chance nonetheless.

 

Armour as another example. I read a while back that they werent going to bring the actual statistics back into the game, and instead use the Healthpool as a "guideline" for a ships armour. Which is ridiculous. Thats like putting healthpoints on aircraft, and we all know how that went down! :P

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Alpha Tester
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Meanwhile once I'm aimed in on a target I'll usually keep hitting it unless there are major course/position changes.

I guess it's just RnG favouring me, gotta be lucky~

 

That answer is bordering on trolling for some ships; frankly I'd have hoped for better.

 

My point, which you deny to the point I'd like to see replays of your New York v Omaha/Murmansk as from what you've said you never seem to miss those OR DDs, is that for some ships you CAN shoot repeatedly at a target THAT ISN'T EVEN MOVING and miss again and again and again.

 

Claiming otherwise is, at least on the basis of my experience, utter bull****.

 

It's why they park bow on at you. Even IF you hit them, you will not get a cit with AP. HE tends to go off on the upper decks doing not a hell of a lot. Once they can negate your AP advantage, their superior RoF (rate of FIRE in every sense) is a problem.

 

To me that's a (sensible) exploit by those playing those ships, but god it makes for a visually absurd, very dissatisfying mess to watch.

 

Before someone inevitably entirely misrepresents what I'm saying, I am NOT saying I want BBs to be massively more accurate. That clearly would be a problem. What I DO want is those blatantly gaming the mechanics to the point of absurdity ("let's sit entirely stationary bow on at that BB @ 12km because they'll never hit us" said no cruiser captain, ever) to pay a price for it that counters the blatant "gamey-ness" of what they're doing. As I suggested, knock a % off the dispersion so anyone sitting still is increasing their chance of being hit INSTEAD of being able to rely on dispersion.

 

I simply loathe seeing ships sitting stationary in the middle of battle, just as I do seeing them going slowly astern. It's such a farce, yet entirely viable for some ships.

Edited by Steeltrap

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Super Tester
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Must be Retia. I absolutely despise the Nagato.... i would rather have a Myogi on my team than a Nagato, thats how much i hate it hah

 

Can't say much about Nagato atm, didn't have accuracy problems with her during earlier testing phases.

Had more issues with her survivability, or perhaps that's just me knife fighting DDs...

(But it worked with all my other BBs Q.Q ^^)

 

As for Myogi, I'd take a well played Myogi over a badly played Nagato every day, she's great at dodging and a well aimed salvo can deal good damage.

Edited by Retia

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Alpha Tester
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Shes always been bad for me, all during Alpha, CBT, and now. I dont know, maybe she just hates me. Get my aim perfect every time, and every shot just straddles them (seriously, how do two rounds fired from the same turret end up 1km+ apart and 3-4kms in length separate??)

 

Hell, i landed 5 registered hits today, at the waterline, at the centre of mass of a Myoko where the citadel is, and i only got 3k damage. Over penetration? doubtful, considering i landed 3 hits on a Murmansk that same match that were citadels, and that has even less "armour".

 

Nagato hates me, and i hate Nagato in return.

 

Oh, and yeah she is such an easy ship to citadel, its beyond a joke.

Edited by Cyanide7662

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Member
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Recently the RNG has been kind to me - I certainly remember shooting at stationary targets in my New York at 7 km and getting 0 hits - in 2 full broadsides. In the New Mexico recently - I have been fairing much much better (good rounds - 50-100k damage per round, 2-3 citadels a round and 20-30 hits a round)

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Alpha Tester
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Shes always been bad for me, all during Alpha, CBT, and now. I dont know, maybe she just hates me. Get my aim perfect every time, and every shot just straddles them (seriously, how do two rounds fired from the same turret end up 1km+ apart and 3-4kms in length separate??)

 

Hell, i landed 5 registered hits today, at the waterline, at the centre of mass of a Myoko where the citadel is, and i only got 3k damage. Over penetration? doubtful, considering i landed 3 hits on a Murmansk that same match that were citadels, and that has even less "armour".

 

Nagato hates me, and i hate Nagato in return.

 

Oh, and yeah she is such an easy ship to citadel, its beyond a joke.

 

It's always hard to assess but the tier 6s were such advances over the 5s that the 7s feel worse than perhaps they are because they're generally regarded as a backwards step from the 6s.

 

Just why that's so has been discussed many times (number of guns, incorrect modelling of relative destructive power of 16" v 14" guns, tougher average opponents).

 

The stats that were published on av dam/battle and hence relative performances between tiers showed the tier 7s definitely to be retrograde steps compared with the 6s.

 

My recollection was the Nagato was still better than the Colobado, the latter being the one ship I used free exp to escape during CBT.

Edited by Steeltrap

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Senior Moderator
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I don't mind Nagato, but I do agree that her accuracy and dispersion at long range is shockingly terrible. I can help but think that maybe she may have gotten a nerf in one of the latest patches though. She seems to get citadeled a lot easier these days....that could just be my driving getting worse though.

Edited by ADM_dude

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I've grinded through Nagato already and have just gotten my Amagi. But let's not speak about the Amagi beauty. Let's talk about the Nagato. It's actually not a bad Tier 7 BB, but it doesn't feel as good as Fuso, or even Kongo for that matter. It's slow and turns like a tortoise. It's armor is unreliable at best. You get pen (not overpen - the full damage pen) quite often if its not a citadel. The guns accuracy is a hit and miss situations mostly. Some games you get great shots, other games is just meh. Whilst Fuso is a great range sniper, even at 20km, Nagato is not. It's best to play Nagato at around 15km to 10km.

 

Overall, Nagato is just an okish BB.

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Alpha Tester
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It's always hard to assess but the tier 6s were such advances over the 5s that the 7s feel worse than perhaps they are because they're generally regarded as a backwards step from the 6s.

 

Just why that's so has been discussed many times (number of guns, incorrect modelling of relative destructive power of 16" v 14" guns, tougher average opponents).

 

The stats that were published on av dam/battle and hence relative performances between tiers showed the tier 7s definitely to be retrograde steps compared with the 6s.

 

My recollection was the Nagato was still better than the Colobado, the latter being the one ship I used free exp to escape during CBT.

 

Ohhhh yeah, Colobado is hands down the worst freaking BB in the game IMO. I honestly would rather play a Kawachi or South Carolina than that thing, but at least it has armour, unlike Nagato. I just have to keep telling myself that the game is still in CBT, even though its in OBT, because the state of the game still isnt fit for open release IMHO. Armour is supposed to be a thing, and rightly so, yet its still not fixed. Theres something ridiculous about getting a HE citadel on cruisers in a Mutsuki. It shouldnt be possible, but it happens, and thats unacceptable, even if the damage is comparable to that of a mosquito bite.

 

I don't mind Nagato, but I do agree that her accuracy and dispersion at long range is shockingly terrible. I can help but think that maybe she may have gotten a nerf in one of the latest patches though. She seems to get citadeled a lot easier these days....that could just be my driving getting worse though.

 

Sadly, thats not a new thing. Nagatos always had problems with paper mache armour. Though it DID used to be worse. My two most fondest and horribad memories of the Nagato, were

1) one shotting a full health Nagato with my Kongo at 19km, where my shots hit the extreme bow of the ship and registered as CITADEL hits, not magazines like youd think. That might have been a glitch with showing citadels instead of magazine, but either way, that was ridiculous.

2) MY full health Nagato, eating ONE torpedo from an Independence's torpedo bombers, penetrated and hit my magazine. Not a full spread, a SINGLE torpedo. This was back when Independece was a tier 5 mind you, so effectively a Bogues torps if you think of it happening now.

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