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Goliath... ... Oh dear... Now I haven't played it enough to be conclusive, I should mention that at the outset. I also should caveat this with I went in with an open mind but the paper didn't look good. But 12 x 234s with 1/4 pen and good AP, come on - still could be good... Well yes those guns aren't bad but that's about it... What Goliath has over Drake: - HP - Range - Extra 3 guns. That's it... HP - no thanks. I need to do a thorough comparison but I don't see the same overmatch weakness on the citadel side. A la, Drake rewards good angling occasionally; Goliath does so even less. HP isn't enough to make up for it. Even then the Range is only an extra 1 km instead of a Spotter, no thanks I'll take the Spotter. Extra 3 guns? um lol, you don't use the rear ones much anyways considering if you show a hint of side; some goose in a BB will overmatch and smash you. The only way I've found to play her with any decency is like a waifu camping CL... If you are doing that in a CA, what's the point? It also means she doesn't fit with the rest of her line... They're all generalists (yes even Drake) that can do some waifu hugging, a bit of open water, a bit of long range harassment and a good bit of ambushing/Ninja-Knifing. I should note, I haven't gone to extremes yet like double rudder. And I can't justify range mod on any level as her reload is just pure crud. I still haven't played near enough games yet to say with confidence she's bad but I can't see the light yet... At least with Drake you could, yes her rudder/engine was poor but it was enough to get the job done even with a concealment build. Reply and let me know if I should do a rant video on it, otherwise, what are everyone else's thoughts?

@humusz, @Paladinum I got sick of derailing a great discussion on RM BBs with our claptrap but I didn't think our back and forth was over... NB: Forgive the editing, I'm my phone. Assessing ships as garbage or forgettable simply because they aren't the strongest or weakest in tier or because they don't have a major gimmick is a disservice to the game. I would argue many of the strongest ships tier-for-tier in the game are often forgotten because of this. I would also suggest that every player make up their own mind. By all means read or watch reviews (shameless plug but check out https://forum.worldofwarships.asia/topic/42754-bluf-episode-2-devonshire-ship-review/ for my Devonshire review) but take on board the objective facts and if you think you might like it, play it. From earlier humusz, a response this little beauty: "...Strongest ? I did mention how even horrible experience is memorable rite ? tell me, What Italian CA along the line is memorable for you ? then ask playerbase is they share your oppinion..." When I play a ship I will look for information, from CCs, playerbase and others to see if there's anything I need to know before playing, however I make my own assessment. I've found the playerbase to be at least partly wrong on more occasions than they are right. This is probably because they simply regurgitate the same unicum/CC assessments they see in videos and go into these things with those pre-existing expectations. This confirmation bias is everywhere in the Warships community. I mean just look at the CV-hate crowd. How many of them have bothered to spend 100 games on T6-10 non-premium CVs? How many spew out the same false-logic arguments of 'not fun to play against', 'no counter play' or 'doesn't fit within the game' just because everyones fave quasi-elitist CC decided it was so? (Start a new thread and tag me if you want to continue this line but I think we've covered it enough before). I wasn't disagreeing with your point about horrible experiences, I was disagreeing with your assessment. Out of all of those ships, the worst is Omaha IMO, but she can be played in her niche well if given the chance. My point was that most of those ships aren't horrible but may require the user to play to their niche a little more. So... Zara... I genuinely found her to be the non-T10 gem of the line but every ship from Trento was fun and Trento was merely eclipsed by Zara. Think about T6 cruisers... Most are lightly armoured, Trento can actually bounce things and she has good range and a good consumable to get out of jail for free... Devonshire is similar, except lacking in the range department, but with concealment to balance, her difference being less tanky arcs/armour scheme and a heal instead of creeping smoke. Every other T6 Cruiser apart from Aoba is more 'delete from any angle' although I love all of them in their own ways. Surely you can't tell me that Trento or Devonshire don't stand out compared to Dallas, Aoba, Pensa, La Glass, Budy, Nurn... But I'd argue every single one of them has something going for them... *Shrugs* that's my side, I keep all ships and I don't purely focus on just playing T10s. Subsequently I am a little even-handed in my assessments thanks to not needing to nuke any ships to get other ones.