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The L 20 is a series of planned design and successor to the Bayern-class dreadnoughts, and match for Hood, Tosa, and South Dakota super-dreadnoughts. In this, we're going to talk about the L 20e α variant. Oversimplified Background in 1914, the Kaiserliche Marine began planning for the battleship design for the 1916 construction program, which would follow the Bayern-class under construction. The Germans had intended for the battleship to be superior to contemporary Queen Elizabeth and Revenge-class dreadnoughts, and called for either ten or twelve 38 cm guns with higher speed of at least 25 knots. Following the Battle of Jutland, Vizeadmiral Reinhard Scheer pushed for new, more powerful battleships, which in concert with Kaiser Wilhelm II's call for what he referred as Einheitsschiff (unified ship) that combined firepower and protection of battleships with high speed of battlecruisers, similar to what we call today as fast battleship. Scheer demanded that the new ships should have guns of 42 cm caliber, an armored belt of 350 mm (14 in) thick and capable of speeds up to 32 knots, all in displacement up to 50,000 ton. By end of 1916, these designs shows up: Ultimately, L 20e are chosen as the basis for the next battleship built. Though at the end, the ships were never built, primarily the shipyard capacity available had been diverted to U-boat construction. The final design, L 20e α, resulted in layout similar to Ersatz Yorck-class battlecruiser, with eight 42 cm gun in twin turrets arranged in two superfiring forward, and two semi-superfiring aft. Protection were broadly similar to the preceding class, but eliminated underwater belt armor due to time-consuming process and belief that the high speed of 26 knots would make up the vulnerability to torpedo attack, hence making them unnecessary. Original Specifications Displacement: Design: 43,800 long tons (44,500 t) Full: 48,700 long tons (49,500 t) Length: 781 ft (238 m) at waterline Beam: 110 ft (33.5 m) Draft: 30 ft (9 m) Installed power: 6x oil-fired and 16x coal-fired boilers, 100,000 shp (75,000 kW) Propulsion: 4x steam turbines, driving 4x propeller shafts Speed: 26 knots (48 km/h) Armament: 8 x 42 cm (16.5 in) SK L/45 guns 12 x 15 cm (5.9 in) SK L/45 guns 8 x 8.8 cm (3.5 in) SK L/45 guns 3 x 60 cm (23.6 in) submerged torpedo tubes Armor: Belt: 30 to 350 mm (1.2 to 13.8 in) Barbettes: 100 to 350 mm (3.9 to 13.8 in) Turrets: 150 to 350 mm (5.9 to 13.8 in) Deck: 60 to 120 mm (2.4 to 4.7 in) Conning tower: 350 to 400 mm (13.8 to 15.7 in) Bulkheads: 60 to 250 mm (2.4 to 9.8 in) Bow plating: 30 mm (1.2 in) Secondary armament: 170 mm (6.7 in) World of Warships - Possible Retrofit and Aspects of Balance Of course, to make her viable for World of Warships gameplay (i assume she's going to be T8), she needs a retrofit to enhance some aspects of her, especially in anti-aircraft department. In this, i drawn up a sketch based on Bayern's and Bismarck's hull in-game: Note: Removal of 2 x 15 cm (5.9 in) gun Replacement of 8.8 cm guns to 16 x 10.5 cm (4.1 in) SK C/33 DP guns in twin mount, arranged four mounts each side Addition of 10 x 3.7 cm Flak LM/42 in twin configuration Addition of 27 x 2 cm Flak 38 in various configuration Superstructure change with Deutschland-style tower and new rangefinders Catapult Some basic aspects of gameplay i can think of: Hitpoints of 68,500 (based on calculation, it should be 69,300, but for the sake of Bismarck maintaining her HP superiority from all, i reduce it) Main gun reload of 30 sec, based on her big caliber but relatively few guns Accuracy the same as other German BBs, but wider spread due to her turret layout Placement as T8 premium
Hi Developers, By this thread I would like propose for WG to found the German CV line. For Forum Administrators: You can move this thread to the proper section as you see fit. Here is the tech tree proposal: Tier 4: Ausonia Tier 6: Jade Tier 8: Flugzeugträger B: is an alternate design of Graf Zeppelin (Flugzeugträger A) which is a premium ship. The Flugzeugträger B has no name yet. Feel free to name it as WG see fit. Tier 10: Europa As the other nations tech tree split line are in the shelf awaiting for progress, here is the alternate tree line: Tier 4: Stuttgart Tier 6: Type II (Was a plan to convert incomplete captured French cruiser De Grasse at Lorient to a CV). Please name the ship. Tier 8: Elbe Tier 10: Weser Comments are very welcome.
HMS Renown (1944) The only battlecruiser of the Royal Navy to remain afloat by the end of the war, Renown was somewhat unique. Her relatively weak armor and despite her size carried only six 381 mm main armament may seem underwhelming compared to other capital ship, she was very fast at 31 knots and carries decent anti-aircraft armament of 72 Oerlikon 20 mm guns. I potentially see Renown as a long-range sharpshooter with accurate but fast firing guns to compensate the low number or support ship with her blazing AA and speed to keep up with the cruisers. But her low-sitting thin belt discourage mid-range brawling like how Hood is played currently. Feel free to discuss :D
Yes. Yes it is. Before any stone is thrown, there are valid historical designs that can make it to the line. https://www.german-navy.de/kriegsmarine/zplan/cruiser/kreuzerm/tech.html https://www.german-navy.de/kriegsmarine/zplan/cruiser/kreuzerq/index.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-class_cruiser And this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_cruiser_Lützow_(1939) “Lützow was originally designed as a light cruiser version of the Admiral Hipper-class heavy cruisers, armed with twelve 15 cm (5.9 in) guns instead of the Admiral Hipper's eight 20.3 cm (8.0 in) guns.” And an image (from somewhere I fail to remember): A bit of a disclaimer: the estimated HP, based on the ships’ standard/full displacement, for the ships aren’t 100% accurate (but I did some tests and the results are very close). WarGaming may use different sources for the ships’ displacements. It’s a formula(s) I stole from someone I know and I do not have the permission to give them to anyone else. The line: VII: M-class Q-class VIII: Hull A Hipper with Königsberg's guns IX: Hipper with Nürnberg's guns X: (Slightly) Modified Hull B Roon with Nürnberg's guns Let’s get into the details: M-CLASS Q-SUBCLASS PROPOSED DESIGN OF LÜTZOW Opinions: + The line in general: I know WG could always make brand new models for the ships but it’d be much easier to put existing models on existing models. That’s basically the concept of the Lützow light cruiser proposal, right? RIGHT??? + Traits: Tanky light cruisers? I mean the M and Q even have “sloped decks”. While I cannot confirm what it truly means, but I assume that “sloped decks” are essentially something similar to “turtleback armor”. “Turtleback armor” is not a technical term by the way. If you view armor profile of a ship like Hindenburg and select to show only the ship’s vital part (the citadel), you will see sloped “sides” of the citadel box, and those edges are called “armored citadel deck slopes”, whose thickness is 60 mm. On German battleships, the armor is arranged differently, so you can’t truly view the actual thickness of the slopes. But they are there. “Sloped deck” on light cruisers. German through and through. The later ships are, of course, as tanky as German heavy cruisers get. That fact needs no more advertisement. 1/4 HE pen, like the heavy cruiser line. + Consumables: I can’t think of any except being identical to the heavy cruiser line already in the game. Would Radar be a good thing? I mean German Hydro is already too good, I don’t think having “German radar” on these ships would be much better than just popping German Hydro, which is long-ranged, lasts longer and can also detect torpedoes. Maybe better Repair Party? Myabe no catapult aircraft (I can see this happen)? + M and Q: Due to the similarities between M-class and Q-class (they are of the same class anyway), I can think of 2 ways: Q-class would the Hull B of M-class -OR- M-class gets in the game as the T7 for the new tech tree, Q-class is a semi-clone as a T6 premium ship. I do have a concern that other T7 cruisers in the game have much better HP pool than those ships (ALL of them to be correct), but M and Q do feature excellent speed and their “sloped decks”. + Lützow: I can think of splitting this CL Hipper into two. This is not a very good way to implement them, admittedly. One as T8 and one as T9. The T8 version will have the 150 mm turrets from Königsberg (7,5s reload) and the T9 (the historical, proposed Lützow) will actually have her designed guns from Nürnberg (6s reload). Since both of the ships would be light cruisers, there would be little problem if the ships have smaller HP pool. For example, all US heavy cruisers will have larger HP pool than all US light cruisers of the same tier – Des Moines’ 50,3k versus Worcester’s 45,4 k. In-game Hipper has 37,3k (Hull A) and 43,8k HP (Hull B), having about the same or slightly more HP than Hull B of some T9 cruisers (Donskoi, Seattle, Ibuki and even Zao – a T10). The very good reload will make up for protection (as if they even lack protection). What I don’t like is making the same ship (the same hull) two different ships in a ship line. But KGV and Monarch exist. Thank to WG for setting the precedence. Also I’d like point out that if the design indeed only changes the main guns of the Hipper-class, then the Fire Control System would still be the same, which means the firing range of these ships would be the best of all the light cruisers in the game: 17.7 km (FCS module B) versus Worcester’s 16.7 km). Even with FCS module A, at 16.1 km, it’s already better than Minotaur. Coupled with the impressive 6s reload, this ship can be really really powerful. + Tier 9 and 10: Alternatively, a light cruiser using Roon’s hull and Königsberg’s guns would do well at T9. Probably too well because of the huge HP pool for a light cruiser. It’s a German ship. It would be characteristically overweight. The last ship of the line would be a largely fabricated design (who’d have thought?) and I can think of 1 of 2 ways. If the T9 is indeed a ship based on Roon’s hull, then the T10 could be using Hindenburg’s hull with Nürnberg’s guns. Admittedly, a ship with Hindenburg’s hull and Nürnberg’s guns can be a very powerful ship in the game. Roon’s hull can have 4 turrets on it easily because: Nürnberg’s turrets are much smaller than Roon’s turrets (being a smaller caliber) and the forward superstructure can be pushed back just a bit to make space for the additional 150 mm turret. Here are my proposed stats of the T8 and T10, T7 is M-class and T9 is the historical proposed Lützow: TIER VIII TIER X