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Please keep it that way, Wargaming. Only 90k damage and earned this much. I loved it. (All RED boosters.)

Hi, In the new 0.11.5 update communication we can read in the section of the community tokens in the armory the following paragraph in red: Due to the forthcoming separation of economic bonuses from ship exteriors, starting with the release of Update 0.11.6, all permanent camouflages for researchable ships, all expendable camouflages, and the Signal Spoils bundle will no longer be available in the Naval Community section. The tab will be replenished with bundles with economic bonuses, as well as a special container with expendable camouflages. Given that some people have invested quite some $$ over the years in especially the special economical signals, it would be fair to ask what will happen to these changes, and what will happen to the pool of signals that everyone owns in their accounts. What are the details of the "separation of economic bonuses from ship exteriors"? Any information provided will be appreciated. Looking forward to your reply.

20x Sierra Mike cost 2,400,000 credits. 120,000 credits ea. Some flags are cheaper, but most are around that. So playing a game with 4-5 flags mounted can easily cost > half a mil. credits, more than you'll make playing the game even if you win and do well. Of course containers drop flags, credits and coal which can variously be converted back, but still, as a heads up: it's pretty easy to burn off more than you make. Economic flags seem to be getting rarer. I ran out of the one for -10% service, which I usually equipped on my T8-10 since my supply seems pretty limitless. What's interesting is that in the week or so since de-equipping all my ships I haven't got any more of them.

As far as I know, the credit/exp earned is (sort of) proportional to the amount of contribution towards the team. Be it dealing damage, capping, shooting down planes, etc. Currently, also, "AFKing" (i.e. not contributing at all) is punished by earning no reward (while still having to pay the repair costs). I have been thinking about the hypothetical scenario where the winning team won the game because ALL the enemy players teamkilled themselves to death (or until they lose all point) before any of the winning team's player did any sort of gameplay. I wonder how the "winning" team earn their credit/exp under this scenario. As of now, I could think of the two possible outcomes: Everyone in the "winning" team are regarded as AFK and earn 0 credit/exp (and comes out in red due to repair costs) The credit/exp is predetermined as a fixed pot, which is distributed to each winning players equally. Feel free to discuss below ;) Disclaimer: Deliberate teamkilling is a deplorable action reflecting the lack of sportmanship. Please do not attempt to "test" this on live server.

Please explain me what should I do to get over 100k credits

Disclaimer: this post is made with a non-premium user in mind. Some screenshots are from periods where premium time was applied, but I will be evaluating those based on non-premium gains. Does anyone know the exact figures/numbers that were rebalanced in the new economy patch for CVs? I am talking about rewards for damage done, plane kills, spotting, and potential damage taken. I am asking this because the impression I am getting from this new economy is that I get quite a bit less than what I used to make, to the tune of at least 25% less. I have had a few games where the earnings actually resembled those that I would make quite regularly in the past, but I would have to dominate both the air and the surface in order to do so. An example would be here http://imgur.com/a/5CXMY. However, those games do not come as often as I would like. Other times, I can deal quite a bit (or a lot) of damage and then barely stay afloat or outright lose credits. This is most apparent at high tiers, and I can give 2 examples that happened yesterday: After those two games, I decided to take a look (again) at the new economy thread at http://forum.worldofwarships.asia/index.php?/topic/18890-incoming-economy-changes-in-0512/ Within that post, two points stuck out to me: 1. One-dimensional gameplay is discouraged due to worse rewards. 2. Only highly skilled players can consistently break even/profit at high tiers. Now, on point 1, the concept seems fine. After all, a CV player that can do it all should be rewarded appropiately. However, that is easier said than done when the strike USN loadouts at T5-T8 don't have any fighters. That loadout is the epitome of "one-dimensional". IJN does not have this problem since all their loadouts have at least 1 fighter and can also deal at least a bit of damage. When asked about this on the Reddit Q&A by Sub_Octavian, his answer seems a bit... worrying. "There is no plan to change loadouts now and to buff strike loadouts. We buffed USN fighters recently for more AS value, and for now are not going to change CV specs more." I would like to know what is the rationale behind this answer. Now, on to point 2. Obviously, at higher tiers, maintenance costs are higher and CVs will have to deal with aircraft replacement costs now. However, we get to the point where you have to get an absolute monster game to stay afloat and I have this question to ask the community and WG: How highly skilled do you have to be to consistently stay afloat? This is not just for CVs, but for other classes as well. Lastly, someone datamined the PT version 0.5.13 and found that aircraft replacement costs have been increased by a not insignificant amount. I understand that this is purely in PTS, and that it may not make it to the live server, but this will make it even harder to earn credits in CVs than it already is (somewhat). The thread can be found here: https://www.reddit.com/r/WorldOfWarships/comments/57abov/05121_live_0513_pt_1_data_changes/ So... what do you guys think about this? I really want to know how you guys feel about this and discuss...

Hi, With the upcoming economy changes, I decided to do some simple maths to determine the actual benefits of it. Changes can be found here. As you can see from these results, you are getting taxed higher if you fall below a threshold of damage taken. Allow me to explain these results. Repair 0.5.11(E) Is the repair cost without maintenance tax. Repair/% 0.5.11 (F) is the cost in credit per percentage % lost. Placebo Maintenance 0.5.12 (I) is the cost in credits for repair without the maintenance of 0.5.11. Repair/% 0.5.12 (J) is the cost in credits per percentage HP lost without the maintenance of 0.5.11. (Repair)+maint per % 0.5.12 (K) is the cost in credits per percentage HP lost with the maintenance of 0.5.11 (Basically maintenance cost of 0.5.12).(THRESHOLD) Break Even HP (L) is the HP lost required to surmount the maintenance and repair cost of 0.5.11.(THRESHOLD) Break Even comparison (M) is the percentage of HP required to be lost to surmount the maint and repair cost of 0.5.11. Credits/% 0.5.11 (N) is the credits lost if you hit the threshold of the new tax compared to 0.5.11. (L*F) Effective Damage in Credits (O) is basically the cost in credits if it was compared to 0.5.12 (N+C) So what does this tell us? Basically as of 0.5.12, the game is taxing you in a way that it assumes you hit a threshold of damage taken. This threshold is L (In numerical HP of ship) and M (% of HP of ship). This means that every single game as of 0.5.12 will assume you take 28k damage in your Hakuryuu or 44.4% or 15k damage in your Shimakaze or 83.3%. Seeing the big picture here now? PROS The pros of this change is that if you take damage over the threshold limit, it won’t cost anything more. This benefits players or classes who have a more aggressive style and does not punish them. Note that this doesn’t affect every class or group of players. This means that DDs, who should and does take damage as they’re in the front lines should suffer less and BBs who take the majority of the fire don’t need to worry as much as the repair costs if they happen to sink. It also promotes a better and (fun and engaging) play style which IMO is a lot better for the gameplay.CONS There are a lot of negatives in this. WG is assuming you take a theoretical threshold amount of damage. It insignificantly promotes players to suicide into the enemy team like a kamikaze. A whole list of co-op problems and finally a class by class breakdown: -DDs DDs predominately take damage as they are the first group to lead the battle into caps. They take damage from enemy DDs and CA/CLs. Now let’s hypothetically say 66% of players die (average in stats of TX DDs is about 37% survive). This new economy will greatly benefit these 66% of players. The remaining 33% however, if they do not take past the threshold will ultimately suffer a loss of credits compared to 0.5.11’s economy. -CAs/CLs CAs have an average survival rate of 51.75% (average stats of TX CAs). Now high tier CAs can repair damage, reducing the cost of their repairs. CAs are “supposed” to help escort DDs and BBs but as anyone knows, being right out in the open means you will almost die instantly from BBs or torpedos from DDs. This means some CAs are better off playing it safer (dying contributes way less to your team than being alive on 1% HP) by staying behind cover. The breakeven is around 80% for cruisers so that means that any CAs of the 51.75% that do not take more than 80% damage are punished. -BBs A huge improvement for BBs as they constantly take damage from every other class. However BBs at TX have a 52.6% survival. They are more geared to finishing the battle on less HP because let’s face it, if you were at 80% HP in a CA, you would most likely be dead. Not only this but BBs can repair a lot more HP than cruisers and don’t suffer from massive bursts of damage (1 citadel or torp does only around 10% compared to cruisers which suffer from ~25%). -CVs The biggest victims in this update. CVs normally don’t take damage from any sources unless a DD sneaks up, you’re in a bad position (which means you’re dead) or when an enemy CV attacks you. Apart from this, most of the time you’re at 100% HP. However, despite having the lowest threshold, CVs are now taxed for having 45% hypothetical damage applied to them every single game. Despite the fact that and I quote “This feature (and other individual characteristics of ships and types) was taken into account in the calculation of maintenance and in the proportions of a reward for the battle.” Conclusion How does this affect the player base? Ruling out the gameplay styles, players with less skill generally die more while the better players will survive and take less damage (good CV players should only take damage once per 10 games due to CVCides). This means that ultimately, better players are punished and will earn less credits compared to 0.5.11. Yes, I know about the addition of spotting and potential damage. However if the compensation of potential damage and spotting does not outweigh the threshold gained then again, better players are punished. Not to mention the fact that spotting for CV heavily relies on MM (if there are DDs or not) and spotting for DD heavily replies on your team (DD spots another DD but CA and BB decides to burn the poor Yamato). Potential damage for CAs and DDs are also hazardous when faced against their respective weakness class. DDs require every single HP and a CA or BB can easily halve that in one salvo while a BB can outright delete a CA.There is also the contradiction of surface to surface ship detection. What this means is that a when a DD detects another DD and that DD fires, that DD is detected by nearby allies or when a DD detects another CA and that CA fires, making the CA detectable by not just the DD but by the other CAs and BBs etc. Also, I highly doubt spotting for my team in say a Hakuryu will compensate me 80k credits (maybe 35k for Shokaku but unlikely) especially with the new exp changes to CVs in my other thread. I think WG’s direction with the economy is good but the execution is extremely poor. CVs and better players suffer a whole lot more from this economical change (like the rich getting taxed more).

Ever since this new economic system came into play, it has made the game nearly unplayable for many people, especially those who regularly play high tier CVs. However, CVs aren't the only ones affected. Here is a screenshot of an Udaloi game I played in Shatter (standard battle, Random). Inspite of doing 72.4 K damage (according to Warships Today, Asia, the average Udaloi damage for this server is 37.1K) and capping the Standard Base solo I only made 128K credits (non premium) and ran a loss of 30K credits. Even on premium, I would have made a loss or almost no profit. My potential damage was 383K. So how is this system justifiable ? Where a game that sees you do twice the server average in damage and top your team xp wise still gives such miserable credit return ? Why would the developers embrace this stupid new economic system ?

Any thoughts about it ? do you like it or not ? opinions anyone ?

After reading some of the public test possible economy change for 5.12 , i've been wondering i they actually make the economy better as from what i can understand from For more fair calculations of XP and Credits earned in battle, the following factors are now taken into account: Spotting enemy ships and squadrons Damage caused by allies to the enemy spotted by you Potential damage ​​Does this mean the reward you getting is actually the same as usual but it just divided by above factors on how you will earn it. Does it means because it divided between them for some ship type this would be a nerf to their earning? As for i know some ship will be lacking in at least one of the above factors when battling or by any means lacking in one fo them. And i know they gonna make the repair cost for ships fixed at certain price according to their tier, but how this gonna affect the income we get in bad war or good way if we considering the above factor.

and...no. I'm not suggesting that premium consumables should be given to all players and all ships by free. what I'm trying to say is... another thing related to in game economy (especially high tiers) but my suggestion will also affect low tiers as well. Like many others have said already, in game economics in high tiers is absurd. many suggestions have been made, most of which consists of the decrease of repair costs. while I do agree with end game economy being bad, I also understands that WG wants high tier players (especially average players) to play mid tiers every now and then to regain credits... but. what about good players? does good players that always earn the top 3 in their team, while not having premium account, needs to play mid tiers every now and then just to regain credits? what I'm trying to say here if you're a good player, and you actually got destroyed in the match, while still getting the top exp in your team. because of various reason. tanking, contesting points, opening opportunities for teams to attack, etc. I once had a game, where I was in a nagato (sorry I had no SS) where I was on top of the team in exp (1200 base exp I recall, as it is a fairly quick match) and actually got destroyed. I do not suffer from a deficit, but, I only earn like, 7k credits. while being the top exp earner on the winning team. I really can't imagine what horrible deficits others below me did have. one thing that I actually noticed that my "repair bill" is also inflated by premium consumable resupply. (I usually only use prem repair kit and DCP in the nagato) so that inflates all my bills in battle by 45k credits. on to my actual suggestion what if, somekind of a challange was added. it can be completed multiple times as a challange would. My suggestion is, to add a challange, in which if you get top 5 exp earner and top 3 in a losing team, you will get a package of consumable that your ship uses. for example, if I'm in a nagato, and i got second on the losing team, I will get 1 premium DCP, 1 premium repair, 1 premium scout plane, and 1 premium catalput fighter. if I'm in a fubuki, I would get 1 premium DCP, 1 premium smoke, 1 premium torpedo reload booster, and 1 premium engine boost instead. Why I'm suggesting this is that when you actually do well in a match, you will be rewarded by a reasonable sum of credits. If i use my nagato battle above as an example, as the top exp earner, my premium consumable resupply will cost 0 credits, resulting in my nett profit being 7k+45k = 52K, and thats reasonable, because I'm the top exp earner. I at least deserve that. now I'm going to see it from the WG side. WG wants good people to be able to play high tiers consistently, while average and bad people will have to occasionally play mid tiers to regain credits. I would say my suggestion here fills in what WG also needs. By restocking consumables on top exp earners, the quality of games will be improved by a lot. it wont be a sniping battles cause some people will actually go in there, because their "bill" is reduced. and it also makes good people don't think about deficits anymore, as they will still be rewarded reasonable even if he is destroyed. One of my friend, never uses premium consumables. the reason why is because he wanted to save credits. I know he is a pretty good player. but it saddens me that he can actually do better with the consumables. On the other hand, if someone plays bad, then nothing will change, he will still lose credits, he will still need to pay to resupply consumables, and he also needs to occasionally play mid tiers to gain credits again. tl;dr : Make a challange in which the top 5 exp earners in the winning team and top 3 exp earners in the losing team gets free consumable resupply. this is to increase the quality of games for good players, and keeping the bad players punished as is, like what WG wants. actually it doesnt have to be the top exp earners, the condition can be changed to an exp treshold; like, if you get at least 1500 base exp on the winning team, and 1000 exp on the losing team. sorry for the long post and my maybe-slightly-drunk english

Some players have asked about how XP and Credits really work, so here's another game mechanic explanation taken and translated from an RU dev post concerning the topic specifically. Before we go into the details, three important points should be kept in mind: An online game is a constantly evolving project. The information in this article may be outdated. This particular article was originally written during version 0.4.0.2; The developers will not disclose the exact figures for XP and credit rewards, as it is classified information; The purpose of this article is to explain how and why players are awarded XP and credits. If anyone wishes to express their opinion about the economy, or suggest something, they can do it in a separate thread in the appropriate section of the forum. Income As most players would already know by now, Experience (XP) and Credits are the two main resources in World of Warships. Players can earn both for certain actions in battle (as well as performing other tasks outside of battle such as completing missions, but that is a separate topic). Currently, these are the actions in battle that will reward players with XP and Credits: Damage inflicted on enemy ships; Destruction of enemy ships; Destruction of enemy aircraft; Base/Point capture and defense. For now, no other actions in battle will award XP or credits. For all the previously listed actions, players will earn both resources, but in different proportions. From here onward, XP and Credits will be referred to as Rewards in this article. Damage Although it is an important element in the game, there is a large difference in hit points between different ship classes. For example, a destroyer may only have around 20,000 HP, while a battleship would have about 90,000 HP. However, it's not always easy to sink a destroyer despite their fragility as they are fast, nimble, and elusive. Similarly, sinking a battleship would require a lot of effort. A carrier might be thought of an easy target, but getting close enough to it is rarely a simple task. Given the characteristics of the game, the mechanism of issuing Rewards for damage is not based on "net damage" inflicted, but on the percentage of total hit points deducted from enemy ships. In other words, taking off 50% of a cruiser's HP roughly equals to taking off 50% HP from a destroyer of a similar tier, even though the net damage inflicted on them may differ by a large amount. Hitting a ship with 5% HP left only once and killing it off would net less Reward than repeatedly shelling a ship and inflicting 80% of its HP in damage. Other aspects to take into account of: Fire and flooding damage are counted; HP restored by Repair Party are counted separately, i.e. if 15% HP worth of damage was inflicted, the Reward will still be awarded if the HP was fully restored by Repair Party; Damage and critical damage to modules are not counted. Destruction of enemy ships While finishing off a low HP ship (sometimes referred to as "kill stealing") is ultimately benefits the team, the reward for it is relatively minor. Destroying a ship roughly equates to inflicting 15% HP worth of damage to the ship. If a player destroys the ship by inflicting 100% of the damage, the reward would be similar to inflicting 115% of the ship's HP in damage. Destruction of enemy aircraft Reward is given for every enemy aircraft shot down. In terms of Rewards, shooting down 40 aircraft of same tier to the player's ship roughly equals to sinking a same tier ship from 100%. However, there are a couple caveats: Aircraft must be shot down from the air. No Reward is given for sinking an aircraft carrier with is aircraft complement still in its hangar; Type of aircraft does not matter, only the tier influences the amount of Reward earned. Tier difference The reward for inflicting damage, destroying enemy ships and aircraft varies according to their tier. Reward coefficient is increased for damaging/destroying higher tier ships/aircraft while Reward coefficient is reduced against lower tier ships/aircraft. Base/point capture and defense Quite simply, the more capture points are contributed to the team the higher the Reward. The same goes for defense, the more capture points are deducted from the enemy the higher the Reward. Reward is also earned for blocking (sitting in cap to prevent enemy from capturing). Other considerations Rewards do not increase linearly based on the player's actions. E.g. sinking one Chester would earn a player a slice of cake. Sinking two Chesters brings the total to one slice plus a few more bites. Sinking three would be worth 2 slices. Rewards scale up with the tiers. In general, tier Xs earn twice as much XP than tier Is. The difference is much larger in terms of credits. However, at the same time expenditures will also increase (which will be elaborated on later). Finally, additional modifiers may apply to Rewards earned: Winning a battle will multiply Rewards by x1.5; An active Premium account will multiply Rewards by another x1.5; Modifiers from first daily victory, signal flags and missions are summed together and applied to either XP, credits or both. As an example, 1000 XP is awarded in battle, which is also the first victory of the day. The player has an active Premium account and mounted the signal flag Equal Speed Charlie London (+50% to XP) on the ship. The net XP earned will be: XP earned x Victory modifier x Premium account modifier x (1 + First daily victory modifier + Signal flag modifier) = 1000 XP x 1.5 x 1.5 x (1 + 0.5 + 0.5) = 4500 XP. Note: The base XP shown in the Team Score tab of the post battle results already take into account of the victory modifier (XP earned x victory modifier). Expenditure Naturally, sea battles are expensive. The player has to pay the costs for certain things after each battle. The economy is set up in a way that the cost of running a ship increases with its tier. At higher tiers, on average (and depending on the player's contribution in battle) the expenditure will eventually exceed the income, at least, without an active Premium account. The expenditures are: Ammunition: These include shells fire from the main armament, torpedoes launched, and aircraft shot down in the air. Shells fired from secondary guns do not incur any costs, as does firing anti-air guns (technically they don't fire any shells at all) or aircraft that is still in the carrier's hangar when it is sunk. Repairs: The repair cost is inversely proportionate to the amount of hit points remaining at the end of battle. Therefore, using Repair Party to restore HP before the end of battle would save up on repair costs. Maintenance: A fixed amount is charged each time the ship is brought into battle. The cost increases with tier, and is slightly higher for carriers than for other classes. Other optional expenditures include: Camouflage - Used once per battle. If auto-resupply is enabled, the full cost of reapplying it will be incurred after battle. Consumables - Like camouflage, they are used once per battle. Premium consumables will incur resupply costs regardless of its usage in battle. Free consumables, as the name says, are free. Future development While the exact schedule and version is not yet certain, these features have been planned for the future: Implement additional Rewards for support roles. E.g. spotting enemy ships; Introduce penalties for excessively passive behavior in battle or simply AFK; ???? PROFIT !!!111 Source/Reference: http://forum.worldofwarships.ru/index.php?/topic/23366-о-боевой-экономике-игры