Mechfori

2, 3, 4階也不差，雖確實存在一些 under performing 的，但也不至於玩不了。 也沒有特別 OP 的存在，唯一可說破壞平衡的就是CV

簡單來說，各種戰術運作皆有回報但回報很低，有些甚至存在極大問題，而打出傷害就是最實在的。這樣子的背景下要人家一票肯上肯戰肯為隊伍運作的全都只低回報甚而零,負回報。一群重甲血厚大口徑都在安全距離保著自己可以全時農。 久而久之，自然是各種的狀況。

還有這個 https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Base_Earnings

可以讀一下以下這個 https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Economy

Ah. 12 Vs 12 is not messy , what mess up the team is those who refuse to play team , only care to sit safe and keep asking others to fight . It only take one who would not battle line and you get your flank basically handicapped. Rank and 7 Vs 7 is no different

I find Edin with Radar perfectly viable , so long , you forget about making any rounds yourself. Just stop shooting and stay stealth use Hydro and Radar in tandem or paired. You become best friend to your team's DD and BB ,( those who do not camp ) but forget about numbers you just are not going to be doing the numbers. But you are helping others doing it and help win the game by denying enemies too. Sadly of course many time you will still end up broke or almost so despite your good deeds. It's not a nimble ship but it's far from sluggish , it's Torp range match that of Mogami though it's far inferior Torp alright. Edin could benefit from pairing with other cruisers though these days asking any cruiser to get into 10, even 15 km towards enemy are like asking for a miracle. Pairing with a DD with good smoke will greatly benefit both parties.

Well Mogami is not alone in this regard , I play Edinburgh this last few days , and with its paper thin armor , so short a range coupled with AP only , am basically doing nil as far as damage goes , you cannot forward these days and you staying back means you cannot do anything at all, on the rare game I am not under tier and able to utilize all my utility ( Radar, Hydro ) , I am doing all the right thing and helping the team , yeah but then what I had to hide and do no damage, waiting for enemy planes to pound on me without any teammate helping , infect I just come out of such a game this evening , T7 / T8 , am the only Cruiser both team with Radar , got to position and keep helping the tam spotting enemy and preventing any of their attempt to cap but in the end taking loads from enemy planes and doing practically none myself . so doing all the right thing tactically and doing the right team play , help the team win, yet still come out almost bottom of the team and almost broke .. Basically the game is telling people playing such support ships NOT TO SUPPORT , cause support just put yourself in agony, in danger, and guaranteed no pay

quite the case , Mogami definitely need some buffing , but plenty other T8 are in same kind of predicament one way or the other, especially old ( and even some newer ones ) tech tree T8 , among IJN CA only Atago and the low to mid tiers holds

got mine, have not play it yet , not expecting much , but seen them and ZF-6 quite often this patch , does seems easier to handle when played against vs the main German DD line , its not only the lack of Hydro.

Happening Again, might be weekend or what ; got disconnected in the heat of the battle and freeze on loading game again

in principle yes, but as always this is the same as AA , it will come out not quite so .. just ask most DD and CL who vanguards , where's the suppose to be there AA cover, wich mean that AA strong Cruiser / BB need to be at least within 5.8 / 6 KM of the DD / CL in need , and the same as Radar suppression, how many time BB and CB can actually suppress and drive off Radar when the team keep shouting for the light force to go out and scout and cap and so and so ... I do agree with it in principle but I held very little faith in its implementation being OK , as such the main ASW still falls to DD and then CL , and still require them to go into short range into the open , being spotted and thus likely being focus fired upon by the enemy, can and will the BB / CB / CA be close enough, and fierce enough suppressing or even driving away the threat .. I doubt it .. So if ASW , just as AA become a task that no one care to do ( cause all it does only is placing the one who do it in danger ) , then we can expect pretty much the same passiveness against planes from ship as it is today to be displayed against subs.

當然不是，畢竟大神就是罕有，大部份玩家就是平均。但机制上就是做成真去打去戰的反而回報最少最有可能早被 delete , 反而只農的不但存話高又能回報，那自然一大群只要農不要戰的。要戰，叫其他人上吧。

其實真正問題倒不如說大部份都是豬隊友。一開場到收尾永遠外圍後線只會叫其他上，去cap。 BB, CB, CA, 有射程，有hp，有甲全都如此，更可惜的是大部份CL, DD 玩家又忍不往上而且他們的射程也不允許，為了至少不破產迫使上前結果自然是被害多數。 作為DD玩家，現在基本上一開場就知道自家BB, CB, CA 的尿性。要學會捨棄不可能的。一句話。你BB, CB, CA 甚而 CL 不上不推，好吧，恕不奉陪，早早 exit 那個方向找個可行的吧！你說無論左，中，右全方向都如此，哪，好吧，游戈中後線等，對面的也不全烏龜吧！第他們推過來自家的想不打也不行。 你說對面把 Area 都 cap 了就等 points 收場。哪，就悠閒 cruise 吧！自家隊伍既然選了不上不推不打不戰，那就這樣了。 你是說他們狂叫 DD 上，那就回一句 “ ask no one to go into harm's way if you yourself are not willing to "

I suppose then you can say that to al the DD, CL, and many CA too , if the game simply made it so engagement is at 20+ km then you had to give everybody that range I suppose ... its a very thin veil to disguise unwillingness of all BB today to do one of their primary duty , tanking the front. Now whether the game meta allow that today is one thing, whether the BB and BB player do it or not is another .. so in the end .. it made this kind of dilemma and this kind of absurd nonsense

I kind of disagree , but that's me , if you ask Salem to perform like a Des Moines, then go play Des Moines, yes its of the same class but its not the same ship. The Radar are not to be used for denying enemy cap , the range is not there , its to be used for defensive ( when enemy PUSH ) or offensive ( when you in Salem push ) , just play as a gun cruiser ( and a fast reload CA guns it had and take advantage of its Heal , its just a totally different play and play style vs D.Moines , that is what it is